rd84 Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Hi, Can anyone recommend a 3D Scanning company in the Midlands please. I want to get the top crankcase of a Yamaha RD500 scanned to figure out some modifications. I can use a couple of CAD programs so I suppose I could just draw it manually - however it would be quite a long task to do it this way accurately. Thanks. Cheers Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porter_jamie Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 i have nearly got the scanner up and running - we are using to it to scan the 690 lump. you want to modify the stock cases - presuambly to stick decent cylinders on? or make a new crankcase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd84 Posted October 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Hi, I'd like to look at either casting a new top case for machining or perhaps CNC'ing a modified top case to take better cylinders. Perhaps TZ250 4DP or RGV250. There are a couple of projects on the web that use 4DP and RGV250 cylinders - however both just use a modified top case (Welded and machined) - I do have some links but for some reason I can't paste them into this reply. Would you let me know when you have your scanner up and running please. Thanks. Cheers Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd84 Posted October 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 [url]https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=4193a29e76b6a3cb&id=4193A29E76B6A3CB%21413&ithint=folder,.jpg&authkey=!AOcV0uiiOTJRZ4E[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanWinkle Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 [url]https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=4193a29e76b6a3cb&id=4193A29E76B6A3CB%21413&ithint=folder,.jpg&authkey=!AOcV0uiiOTJRZ4E[/url] https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=4193a29e76b6a3cb&id=4193A29E76B6A3CB%21413&ithint=folder,.jpg&authkey=!AOcV0uiiOTJRZ4E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porter_jamie Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 You have a picture of the top case unbolted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd84 Posted October 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Thanks VanWinkle - I just can't cut and paste on this forum - the URL link doesn't work either ? - also if I use quote that doesn't quote the post ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd84 Posted October 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Hi porter_jamie, I'll photograph the cases and post them up. Cheers Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark/Foggy Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Thanks VanWinkle - I just can't cut and paste on this forum - the URL link doesn't work either ? - also if I use quote that doesn't quote the post ? The site doesn't like IE, open it in Chrome and miraculously everything works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd84 Posted October 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 The site doesn't like IE, open it in Chrome and miraculously everything works. Worked ! - many thanks Mark. Cheers Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd84 Posted October 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Hi porter_jamie, I'll photograph the cases and post them up. Cheers Paul Cheers Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyfumi Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 I want to get the top crankcase of a Yamaha RD500 scanned to figure out some modifications. I can use a couple of CAD programs so I suppose I could just draw it manually - however it would be quite a long task to do it this way accurately. You will most probably have to model up the new top case anyway, as the output file from the scanner won't really be suitable for machining/casting etc. If you had it reverse engineered with something like a Faro arm, then that could output geometry (planes, hole centres etc) that would get you a bit futher ahead. Unfortunately, it's not quite as simple as scan something then stick it in the CNC machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porter_jamie Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 What does the middle shaft do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porter_jamie Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 trickiest thing i can see is machining the main bearing bores. i expect the original one was done with it bolted up, and if you are trying to make a new half to match perfectly, that might be difficult. luckily dont have to trench/ machine out the bottom of the crankcases which would be difficult. is the new one going to have reed cases in both sides? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd84 Posted October 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 Hi, The middle shaft is a balancer - which also means that sadly the cranks both rotate in the same direction - I'm told it's better to have contra-rotating cranks to reduce torque reaction ? I will hopefully be going for reed cases on both sides - I'll look at offsetting them to give more room for in-line carbs in the V - I won't know if this is possible until later in the project though. Presumably reed cage to crankshaft web clearance is critical - or perhaps the volume between the reed cage and the crank web ? - Perhaps I should try and measure up some 4DP crankcases to try and stay standard-ish ? I guess I'd better bite the bullet and start drawing from scratch Cheers Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porter_jamie Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 remember one crank will be turning in a different direction to the other - in relation to the reeds. some engines shroud the bottom end to counter the effect of this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laney Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 Hello, i work for a 3d measuring and inspection company based in sunny Bromsgrove (West mids). If you still need a quote for the scanning work you are more than welcome to talk to me or my colleague, even just for a bit of advice if you want. We could scan the part for you and provide you with stl files for you to surface, or we could create a few cylinders and planes etc to get you going, or provide cad data for the part depending on your budget.. (If you mention this here forum ill get you a discount!!)... My name is Steve, or my colleague is Tom if im not around.. 01527 558 282 Central Scanning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricey3 Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 you chaps got a faro arm at central scanning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2T Institue Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 Fix the horrid water path before you go worrying about the cases. If you try to stick carbs in the V you'll find its a really tight fit and a bastard to work on. I would say why worry because you can go to 120rwhp with an ignition , pipes and a bit or port work. If you're still keen on righting all the wrongs in the RZ500, you would just design a new set of cases copied off the GP 500 but accepting the RZ internals, make the cases taller for bigger case reeds and give more room in the V for carbys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd84 Posted October 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 remember one crank will be turning in a different direction to the other - in relation to the reeds. some engines shroud the bottom end to counter the effect of this Good point ! - thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd84 Posted October 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 Hello, i work for a 3d measuring and inspection company based in sunny Bromsgrove (West mids). If you still need a quote for the scanning work you are more than welcome to talk to me or my colleague, even just for a bit of advice if you want. We could scan the part for you and provide you with stl files for you to surface, or we could create a few cylinders and planes etc to get you going, or provide cad data for the part depending on your budget.. (If you mention this here forum ill get you a discount!!)... My name is Steve, or my colleague is Tom if im not around.. 01527 558 282 Central Scanning. Thanks - I'll give you a call on Monday. Cheers Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd84 Posted October 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 Fix the horrid water path before you go worrying about the cases. If you try to stick carbs in the V you'll find its a really tight fit and a bastard to work on. I would say why worry because you can go to 120rwhp with an ignition , pipes and a bit or port work. If you're still keen on righting all the wrongs in the RZ500, you would just design a new set of cases copied off the GP 500 but accepting the RZ internals, make the cases taller for bigger case reeds and give more room in the V for carbys Hi, The only complaints I've heard about cooling have been when the waterways have been modified in some way - presumably there is something critical to the existing design that affects flow between the banks of cylinders ? I'm a bit cagey about that 120bhp level of tune with existing cylinders - most tuners seem to be looking at 100 rwp at most - perhaps modern tuning experience with the TZR250 2MA might have improved with recent advances in ignition and YPVS programming ? - any advice in this direction would also be appreciated - I suppose I wanted to do something really outrageous with the 4DP cylinders ! Certainly the intakes will not be easy - I was thinking of offsetting two reed cages towards the centre on one bank and two reed cages away from the centre on the other bank. This whole thing could come to nothing - but I want to see how far I can get - this is just the beginning of the research - I've no doubt that I will make some significant mistakes if I go ahead with this work - one reason why I wanted to do it in CAD first to try and overcome some of the basic design problems. The photo's at https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=4193a29e76b6a3cb&id=4193A29E76B6A3CB!413&ithint=folder,.jpg&authkey=!AOcV0uiiOTJRZ4E should give an idea if the conversion is possible - however I don't want welded up crankcases. I believe this engine makes 111 rwhp - which I would have thought should be higher ? Perhaps the crank rotation problem is holding it back ? - let's hope we hear more of this project. Quite a scary mid-range dip as well ? - There is a thread at... http://www.rzrd500.com/500phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=12321 Cheers Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd84 Posted October 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 https://zljylw-bn1306.files.1drv.com/y2mOxIIdvvL_q1gadUvcFc93tGy5U0CBKn_RpitvtVzzFggpMfHqvoyYj_eJ0p74_sfgneqA-Pq9j3Q-xnVvsjbzv5XMzDZb3_Tu6esvnzqYcLYsbW4-HUC1uHqd-20Wnyx/IMG_0021-1.JPG?psid=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2T Institue Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Hi, The only complaints I've heard about cooling have been when the waterways have been modified in some way - presumably there is something critical to the existing design that affects flow between the banks of cylinders ? I'm a bit cagey about that 120bhp level of tune with existing cylinders - most tuners seem to be looking at 100 rwp at most - perhaps modern tuning experience with the TZR250 2MA might have improved with recent advances in ignition and YPVS programming ? - any advice in this direction would also be appreciated - I suppose I wanted to do something really outrageous with the 4DP cylinders ! Certainly the intakes will not be easy - I was thinking of offsetting two reed cages towards the centre on one bank and two reed cages away from the centre on the other bank. This whole thing could come to nothing - but I want to see how far I can get - this is just the beginning of the research - I've no doubt that I will make some significant mistakes if I go ahead with this work - one reason why I wanted to do it in CAD first to try and overcome some of the basic design problems. The photo's at https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=4193a29e76b6a3cb&id=4193A29E76B6A3CB!413&ithint=folder,.jpg&authkey=!AOcV0uiiOTJRZ4E should give an idea if the conversion is possible - however I don't want welded up crankcases. I believe this engine makes 111 rwhp - which I would have thought should be higher ? Perhaps the crank rotation problem is holding it back ? - let's hope we hear more of this project. Quite a scary mid-range dip as well ? - There is a thread at... http://www.rzrd500.com/500phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=12321 Cheers Paul I seen the dyno graph and yes it made 120hp on the standard carbs and cylinders. After all that is only 30hp per cylinder. Dip is from the power valve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd84 Posted October 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 I seen the dyno graph and yes it made 120hp on the standard carbs and cylinders. After all that is only 30hp per cylinder. Dip is from the power valve Hi, Can you remember who the tuner was please ? -it's probably worth me having a chat with them. Do you think that dip could be tuned out using a programmable PV controller ? - although big numbers are impressive I want a tune that will still give easily useable power - I know that 4DP cylinders are peaky but I'm hoping that inlet ,carbs, pipes, programmable ignition and pv control will modify the power without destroying the top end entirely. I'm also determined to have oil injection - I can't stand the idea of mixing oil in the fuel. On the bike I'm building I'm eventually going to look at having some much larger air boxes since there is much more space available inside the YZR fairing than the standard RD500 fairing. I want to get as large a volume as possible of still air - however not sure whether or not to join the two air boxes as with the standard RD500 ? - Would be nice to move the heavy oil tank to the centre of the bike rather than having it hang off the side of the frame. So much to think about - it's making my head swim ! Thanks Cheers Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laney Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 you chaps got a faro arm at central scanning? We dont use a faro arm as they are our competitors, as we also sell a lot of the equipment that we use. Day to day we mainly use white and blue light fringe projection scanners.. We have a Cmm if we need to back any data up with old fashioned tech..!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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