VanWinkle Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 After reading up on what was the better of the two types of bearings I headed over to the Honda dealers today and ordered up a set of tapered bearings for the steering head, Now someone who's advice i highly regard has told me that tapered bearings in the blades steering is not a good idea as they cause high speed wobble..so, Have any of you guys went from oe roller bearings to tapered bearings with any ill effect on your bikes steering or would you recommend tapered over roller and why?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobert Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 Maybe you should ask for a vote................................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanWinkle Posted September 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 Maybe you should ask for a vote................................. yawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobert Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 C'mon it was slightly funny............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 Isn't it generally thought that taper bearings are harder to set up than roller? I've only ever used taper and never had an issue, but not in a blade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesmoEddy Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 Surely it's a choice between taper roller or ball race, isn't it? Never seen plain roller bearings in a headstock....nothing to take the thrust loading. Can't see taper rollers being more wobble-prone, either. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanWinkle Posted September 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 Surely it's a choice between taper roller or ball race, isn't it? Never seen plain roller bearings in a headstock....nothing to take the thrust loading. Can't see taper rollers being more wobble-prone, either. Ed Yes Ed, you are correct it should have said "ball race"..cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damnthistinleg Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 In motorcycle headstocks, I can't think of any situation where a set of ball race bearings are a better solution than a set of tapered rollers. Unless of course, you are counting the pennies because you are buying tens of thousands of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty_The_Iceman Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 Tapered roller all the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suspensionsmith Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 The attractive thing about ball race bearings to the manufacturer is they arent so sensitive to preload tension (so they can be tensioned a little tighter)and the balls are self aligning and so generally dont need to be retensioned after the initial bedding in period. Tapers on the other hand are more sensitive to preload tension which if excessive can cause said high speed instability...also the individual tapered rollers when installed are usually misaligned to some degree which means they then realign with use and so loosen up after the initial bedding in period so retensioning is then essential....this is something the manufacturers would like to avoid hence their preference for ball race bearings. But tapers are generally better in terms of durability and performance...when tensioned/adjusted correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxr renegade Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 'ball race' *snigger* I went from the ball bearing to a taper roller bearing in one of my old R1's, if i'm honest, i noticed no difference at all. Certainly not a detremental one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyJim Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 taper rollers all the way. After reading up on what was the better of the two types of bearings I headed over to the Honda dealers today and ordered up a set of tapered bearings for the steering head, Now someone who's advice i highly regard has told me that tapered bearings in the blades steering is not a good idea as they cause high speed wobble..so, Have any of you guys went from oe roller bearings to tapered bearings with any ill effect on your bikes steering or would you recommend tapered over roller and why?. with respect I think the advice of your learned friend is suspect. or perhaps the taper-rollers he refers to were not set correctly the k6 and the R1 before it had taper-rollers in place of the OEM caged ball bearings. a vast improvement in each case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millerich Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 Iirc the 954 Blade had tapered as standard, but was recalled to fit rollers, as some owners had concerns about the front end feeling flighty. This may be where your "blades don't like tapered" theory comes from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suspensionsmith Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 Posably but these bikes also had a crappy front suspension setup which must take some of the blame. Would be interested to know which motogp bikes etc run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanWinkle Posted September 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 Iirc the 954 Blade had tapered as standard, but was recalled to fit rollers, as some owners had concerns about the front end feeling flighty. This may be where your "blades don't like tapered" theory comes from. Yeah, he did mention that, thing is what he doesnt know about blades can be written in large bold lettering on a postage stamp and as i said i value his opinion highly.. I just wanted to know what everyone elses thoughts on this were, I have ordered tapered but i do know that they have a set of ball race bearings in stock, so i may well go with the oe part if tapered is going to cause trouble a bit further down the road ( pun alert).. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyJim Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 I fail to understand how taper-roller bearings would make a bike 'flighty' compared to the caged-ball type. if anything I would expect the opposite, but if he knows his stuff then fair enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 My Triumph has a taper at the bottom and a sealed ball bearing at the top as standard. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere years ago that gp bikes use balls as they have fewer points of contact between the yokes and stearing stem providing better feel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damnthistinleg Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 When I was about 9 years old, I used my dad's only roll of PVC tape to make a set of steering 'bushes' for my brother's home-made bike, as we didn't have any bearings. The handling was very strange but this could also have been due to the Chopper front wheel in a set of forks made for a 26" wheel. The fact it didn't have a tyre and ran on the chrome rim probably didn't help either, now I think of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilchicken0 Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 The original SB6 had barrel bearings in the head races to allow adjustability, it was a Mercedes part I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty_The_Iceman Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 I suppose the ideal preloading torque on a tapered bearing setup would be different from that on a ball bearing installation. Furthermore most of the OEM ball type headstock bearings I've seen look to be of middling quality, as opposed to higher quality aftermarket tapered rollers. Interesting technical discussion, but If I were replacing old bearings with new I think I'd always be going for the tapered rollers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanerdog1x1 Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 When I was about 9 years old, I used my dad's only roll of PVC tape to make a set of steering 'bushes' for my brother's home-made bike, as we didn't have any bearings. The handling was very strange but this could also have been due to the Chopper front wheel in a set of forks made for a 26" wheel. The fact it didn't have a tyre and ran on the chrome rim probably didn't help either, now I think of it. I remember putting together a bmx with racer forks and a child's pram front wheel. Good idea as it was guaranteed not to puncture being a solid rubber tyre. Didn't end well when I rode over a drain cover and the narrow wheel got lost in one of the slits.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanWinkle Posted September 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 I fail to understand how taper-roller bearings would make a bike 'flighty' compared to the caged-ball type. if anything I would expect the opposite, but if he knows his stuff then fair enough Upshot is, when i got over to the shop yesterday the oe bearings they had in stock were sold so i have the tapered rollers in the shed, i was supposed to be going away for a day or two over the weekend but thats looking like it wont be happening now, so i'll fit the tapered rollers instead and see how things go..update to follow sometime, possibly.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilchicken0 Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 You'd buy OE bearings ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanWinkle Posted September 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 You'd buy OE bearings ? Yes, I was going to buy both sets of bearings, that way if i did have problems with the tapered bearings then I could swap them out for the oe part.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted September 29, 2014 Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 I seem to remember Trigger having an off at anglesey, a fairly small low side, when he had cheapo ebay taper rollers fitted. Not that the bearings were to blame but they were fairly new, literally weeks old, then got notched in the bump. Maybe it'd have happened with any bearings or maybe it was because they were cheapo ones, but personally I'm only buying decent branded tapers after that, buy cheap, buy twice etc. 'All balls', despite having no balls at all with tapers, are a decent investment, wemoto do them for about £25 a set I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyJim Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 i did a bit of research before I replaced the k6 head bearings recently. some opinion on the interweb that 'all balls' taper-roller bearings are cheapo made in china items. not sure if that's (a) true or ( makes any difference but I went for some japanese made 'Koyo' ones. lovely they are too. think they were around the same money as the all balls ones, maybe a quid or two more, can't remember now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanWinkle Posted September 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 i did a bit of research before I replaced the k6 head bearings recently. some opinion on the interweb that 'all balls' taper-roller bearings are cheapo made in china items. not sure if that's (a) true or ( makes any difference but I went for some japanese made 'Koyo' ones. lovely they are too. think they were around the same money as the all balls ones, maybe a quid or two more, can't remember now Was koyo i ended up with, 9 quid cheaper than oe bearings, didnt come with a new lock washer tho so that was another 4 quid..ive still to fit them, was gonna do it on Saturday but went to the pub instead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyJim Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 not sure if you've done them before, I hadn't. I found getting the old races out was a piece of piss, and getting the new top outer race wasn't too bad. but getting the lower outer race in was a right pain in the arse. I ended up making and using a drawbolt which worked a treat and some handy advice from others also in here http://pbmagforum.co.uk/index.php?/topic/46580-head-bearing-replacement/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanWinkle Posted September 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 not sure if you've done them before, I hadn't. I found getting the old races out was a piece of piss, and getting the new top outer race wasn't too bad. but getting the lower outer race in was a right pain in the arse. I ended up making and using a drawbolt which worked a treat and some handy advice from others also in here http://pbmagforum.co.uk/index.php?/topic/46580-head-bearing-replacement/ Ive not done them before but like yourself i was thinking of somesort of drawbar or using the old race to seat the new one, normally with bearings (wheel) i stick them in the freezer overnight to shrink them, so that might be worth a shot on the bottom race.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyJim Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Ive not done them before but like yourself i was thinking of somesort of drawbar or using the old race to seat the new one, normally with bearings (wheel) i stick them in the freezer overnight to shrink them, so that might be worth a shot on the bottom race.. I did all of the above. the drawbolt arranegment worked really well on the bottom race, because it's harder to hit upwards a good tip I picked up was to cut a slot in the old race, and that worked a treat as it turned out it was the perfect size for my 36mm impact socket old caged race with cut slot on the left, new taper roller race on the right. obvious difference in bearing surface area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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