Is There A Riding Position Setup Guide?

[John21]

I am in the process of setting up my (2T 250) racer for the next racing season and among other things I really have to set up the riding position.

I have done some track days and races on it but it was really uncomfortable, especially when braking hard and in fast S curves.

My grip on the tank was inadequate to say the least and my knee angle wasn't helping either.

A little bit while ago I received a set of OEM rearsets for my bike and after fitting them things got better but there is much room for improvement yet. Turns out the previous owner was rather taller than me so he fabricated a set of rearsets that was good for him.

So with the new rearsets I have a faint idea of where to go with knee angle, but the amount of adjustable things on a racer and their combinations make it really hard to start adjusting form somewhere.

I have a very clear idea of how I would like my tank to be and feel, as I ride an SP1 and it delivers the best tank grip I have ever experienced. Unfortunately RS250 and SP1 tanks are very far in respect of dimensions and shape, so I m thinking of using seat pad to widen the tank.

So every time I try to start tackling this I'm left looking at the bike, thinking of the endless combinations of:

• Seat position (in respect of the longitudinal axis)
• Seat height
• Clip on angle
• Tank width
• Rearset postion (vertical and longitudinal axis)

Do you guys have any method to solving this riddle?

Where do you start first and how do you go on finding a riding position in a bike that feels really comfortable?

PS:I can have rearsets - subframes - clipons etc made to suit, at least I have that going for me.

[Jenny Pryde]

I don't understand why you want to widen the tank. A 250 2t tank is so much better for moving around on the bike and under braking. Just squeeze with your knees, adjust clip-ons and levers to personal preference.

Alternatively, come to the conclusion that these 2t things are rubbish and sell it to me for a bag of potatoes, some cabbage and some excellent bacon. ;-)

[toosmooth]

Good question.

You're starting by saying everything is variable - this creates more of a problem than you need in my humble opinion.

You say you have OE rearsets and they worked better than the home bodge jobs you had previously. Why not start with them as a fixed point to work from? Honda put them there for a reason, and at the very least you already have a set that don't need remanufacturing.

The next nearly fixed point is the bars - I presume you have clip ons so you can go up and down the fork and obviously tweak the angle. Bar position obviously needs to work with the throttle cables and brake pipes on full lock, and not hit the tank or bodywork anywhere on their radius either. Moving these about with the caveats as mentioned is easy enough, so why not make an arbitrary placement of these and to allow you to think about the really interesting bit which is where you'll mount the seat.

Seat height makes a big difference to your comfort, how fast the bike will turn, how mobile you can be on the bike and how stable it is on the brakes. Again, I'd start with standard and maybe find a way of mocking up a position 1" higher and 1" lower than OE just to get a feel.

My SRAD had the seat raised by 1.5" using a works replica seat frame, and it suits it really well, but it is a bigger change than you'd imagine!

You are also trying to create decent purchase on the tank with your knees, although you may need to ditch your dream of recreating an SP1 feeling given the differing nature of their tanks of course. I'd go for the idea of padding the tank with something bulky, although aesthetically it may not be quite in-line with the ideals of a purist!

I don't think I've been much help, but if I were in the garage with you now, I think I'd be saying lets remove variables, lets try stuff and make decisions based on how it feels!

Good luck, keep us posted.

[dansp1]

you could try duplicating the relationship between the seat, bars and rearsets on the SP1 and see how you get on then..

[John21]

I don't understand why you want to widen the tank. A 250 2t tank is so much better for moving around on the bike and under braking. Just squeeze with your knees, adjust clip-ons and levers to personal preference.

Alternatively, come to the conclusion that these 2t things are rubbish and sell it to me for a bag of potatoes, some cabbage and some excellent bacon. ;-)

I get why you find that strange.

But after testing many setups with spacers in various areas on the sides and back of the tank I found out that:

• There is such a thing as a too narrow tank. There's a minimum angle for your legs when they hug the tank, if you go under that angle you ll find that gripping the tank (especially under braking) comes a bit of a struggle taking away from your concentration.
• Widening the tank towards the tail of the tank (the area you smash your jewels onto occasionally ) works best, as this is where your inner thighs are and when you combine the widening with an anti slip surface, you use a minimum amount of force as opposed to trying to hold on with the inner surface of your knee area (sorry for the lame description, my english isn't that good)

I like potatoes cabbage and bacon but I like my 2 strokes better man. Sorry I ll have to decline

[John21]

Good question.

You're starting by saying everything is variable - this creates more of a problem than you need in my humble opinion.

You say you have OE rearsets and they worked better than the home bodge jobs you had previously. Why not start with them as a fixed point to work from? Honda put them there for a reason, and at the very least you already have a set that don't need remanufacturing.

The next nearly fixed point is the bars - I presume you have clip ons so you can go up and down the fork and obviously tweak the angle. Bar position obviously needs to work with the throttle cables and brake pipes on full lock, and not hit the tank or bodywork anywhere on their radius either. Moving these about with the caveats as mentioned is easy enough, so why not make an arbitrary placement of these and to allow you to think about the really interesting bit which is where you'll mount the seat.

Seat height makes a big difference to your comfort, how fast the bike will turn, how mobile you can be on the bike and how stable it is on the brakes. Again, I'd start with standard and maybe find a way of mocking up a position 1" higher and 1" lower than OE just to get a feel.

My SRAD had the seat raised by 1.5" using a works replica seat frame, and it suits it really well, but it is a bigger change than you'd imagine!

You are also trying to create decent purchase on the tank with your knees, although you may need to ditch your dream of recreating an SP1 feeling given the differing nature of their tanks of course. I'd go for the idea of padding the tank with something bulky, although aesthetically it may not be quite in-line with the ideals of a purist!

I don't think I've been much help, but if I were in the garage with you now, I think I'd be saying lets remove variables, lets try stuff and make decisions based on how it feels!

Good luck, keep us posted.

Thanks, you have been more helpful than you think.

For starters I realized that Im making a big mistake by tackling this with the fairings off. I 'll get them back on as this is a recipe for clipons clearance issues as you very clearly suggested.

The principle of removing variables is the way to go, I tend to think of the clip on position standard for the time being

Seat height is tough nut to crack. I've thought of removing the sub frame altogether and making a contraption that attaches to the frame and has infinite adjustability in terms of seat height and angle so I can find the perfect geometry for me and then make a subframe but I think this is taking things a bit too far.

For anyone out there on a similar quest, a small note. Do all your researching on both stands. When the bike is only on the rear stand only you get more weight on your wrists than normal.

And to pick your minds a bit further. Do your legs and the recesses on the tank's sides have a "perfect fit"?

[John21]

you could try duplicating the relationship between the seat, bars and rearsets on the SP1 and see how you get on then..

Of course I started from there, but you ll be amazed* by how much bigger the SP1 than the RS is, in every respect. All vital ergometric distances are considerably greater including the width that makes much more of an impact in rider position than what you 'd think. So I gave up early on that idea.

*No you wont

[dansp1]

Have you considered surgery?

[spacemonkey]

Interesting topic... Could you look at it another way and pad your leathers? Once you can grip with your legs, you may find the rest of the controls easier to live with.

[Jenny Pryde]

This could be a cognitive issue. I grew up on slim, light two strokes and found it difficult to adapt to four strokes. Instant torque and engine braking were big challenges, as was short-shifting and staying in a single gear for what seemed like days. And fat tanks! ;-)

Ever considered fitting an RG 500 motor into an SP rolling chassis? ;-)

[John21]

Interesting topic... Could you look at it another way and pad your leathers? Once you can grip with your legs, you may find the rest of the controls easier to live with.

Interesting concept. I think it wont have the same effect as padding the tank though. Not rigid enough.

[John21]

This could be a cognitive issue. I grew up on slim, light two strokes and found it difficult to adapt to four strokes. Instant torque and engine braking were big challenges, as was short-shifting and staying in a single gear for what seemed like days. And fat tanks! ;-)

Ever considered fitting an RG 500 motor into an SP rolling chassis? ;-)

Don't get me wrong, I am a 2 stroke guy, NSR's are my thing, been playing around with them for the last 10 years. But when you go from riding B roads to racing, things like riding position and leg grip take a whole new meaning and you got to reach for perfection. It pays off in many ways.

The SP is like an NSR GT. Bigger in every way (unfortunately in weight too), but way more comfortable.

The RS is narrower, lower and more cramped than MC18s and MC21s so the goal is to make the two extremes meet.

As for an RG500 engine in an SP chassis, well it may sound a bit genty, but it would be too heavy, too wide, too sluggish and probably too powerful for my taste.

[Jenny Pryde]

Fair enough. :-) Good luck with your quest.

[John21]

Fair enough. :-) Good luck with your quest.

Well thank you dear friend

[MonkeyJim]

put some stompgrips on the tank.

[John21]

put some stompgrips on the tank.

Stormgrips are already on the way. Have tried them, fantastic piece of kit.

[toosmooth]

Re: Legs and recesses.

Shopping list. Pretty simple

1) in a racing tuck my knees can fit inside the cut out. Seat being too high means this may not be possible - theres your upper limit. Can't think that there's a lower limit?

2) when hanging off my upper knee will also fit inside the cut out and have some support. Too high, thats not possible, too low, maybe not enough help from the top ridge of the cut out. ALTHOUGH - stompgrips will alleviate this as they garner more purchase from any interface with your leathers. Ugly fucking things they are, but bloody good.

Did I ever mention I was once the distributor of those? I could even try and take credit for the 750% increase in sales I presided over in the 18 months I was doing it, but it was a shit time in my life and best forgotten!

[coppersaucepipe]

To work out where you want your seat, remove the seat unit and replace it with a plank of wood. then just add layers of 1/2 inch thick seat foam until you find your hight and distance from the tank. Then refit the seat unit where you want it.

[John21]

To work out where you want your seat, remove the seat unit and replace it with a plank of wood. then just add layers of 1/2 inch thick seat foam until you find your hight and distance from the tank. Then refit the seat unit where you want it.

Thanks. Will try it tonight.

[John21]

To work out where you want your seat, remove the seat unit and replace it with a plank of wood. then just add layers of 1/2 inch thick seat foam until you find your hight and distance from the tank. Then refit the seat unit where you want it.

Tried a version of this. It is definitely is a nice point to start. I found that my seat was at least 4cm (maybe 5cm) lower than it should be.

With that solved, vertical position of the rearsets feels almost natural, I ll try to move them forward to see where that leads me.

2.5cm padding for the sides and tail of the tank on the way.

Sorry for the crappy mobile/underlighted photos

(I knew that Pittman's book was useful...)

[RonniB]

The seat area looks very short, I would struggle to get behind the screen.

[John21]

Yes, these bikes are quite small