Superdunc Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 A 9.5 kg/mm spring is just that regardless of how long it is.It only becomes stiffer when it becomes coil bound, sure a shorter spring will become coil bound with less travel, but I really can't believe WP would design a cartridge kit where this could happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted October 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 WP, blagging it for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted October 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Just had a thought, I can get hold of 8kg springs from ten kate again, could I mix and match, have one spring in on leg and another in the other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark/Foggy Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Yes, do the maths (8+9)/2 = 8.5. Seriously doubt that you'll find a spring that light workable though. You'd have to wind so much pre-load in to support the front of the bike, that you'll be getting into spring bind territory. Kais were just asked to switch the springs, which they'll have done, but have they looked at the cartridges and shim stacks. I'm thinking that these puppies might have to go on a fork Dyno for a look to see how they're reacting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suspensionsmith Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Dont fall into the trap of thinking softer springs mean a softer feel....softer springs mean the suspension will work deeper into the stroke for a given load.....this uses up travel and puts the forks suspension closer to where the air gap starts to take effect and so give a stiffer uncompliant feel over bumps etc.....correctly stiff springs in conjunction with the valving when done properly make the suspension stay/work in its most compliant area of the stroke when loaded....sounds like you have valving issues....by that I mean excessive high speed compression damping for the level of riding you are doing....backing off the low speed comp adjuster might work a little but to much usually then means a lack of low speed support and control and so the suspension blows through the stroke...and feels harsh again....making things stiffer may seem counter intuitive but its all about balance and control against your level of riding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted October 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 Kais didn't just swap the spring, I originally asked Kais to tell me what springs were in there and explained what was happening. They agreed that I should go a little lighter and told me they were 9.5's. Last time out, with minimum preload possible, the forks used all but the last 16mm of travel, and although they felt better than when they were running a bit of preload, they still felt like I was going to end up on my arse on any slower tighter corner. They were better than the previous outing when they were running 7 clicks of preload (out of 18 I think, from memory). Last time out I also put about 4mm of ride height in on the rear, again, in an effort to get some weight over the front. Gobert has already mentioned that he's found a set up on his bike that he likes with 7mm of height on the back, so if I can't soften the springs slightly, I'll try lifting the back slightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobert Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 Like I posted you also need to raise the front otherwise it will actually feel worse in the slow stuff - these bikes like to be run high and flat rather than nose down. The standard forks allow about 5mm of adjustment - in an ideal world you actually want to raise the front more than that bit you can't without fitting fork extenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couchcommando Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 I know you've thought about it but why not put a set of standard forks and a standard shock in, it'll then work for 99% of us riders with standard settings, my R1 and 675 this year were both standard on standard settings and didn't want for any more, in fact the R1 had a maxton shock in and was better with the standard one as the maxton obviously wasn't set up for me. You could then pocket the difference in price between the fancy stuff and standard stuff and have no more suspension woes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocyboy Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 ^ what couch said. Flog the trick stuff and just get standard gear in there. As time goes by and you get used to the bike and go quicker (LOL) you can get them rebuilt to suit if needs be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefatman Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 This bike doesn't appear to suit your riding style. What you really need is one of those supertwins they are now racing, they handle brilliantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millerich Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 ^oof! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted October 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 I know you've thought about it but why not put a set of standard forks and a standard shock in, it'll then work for 99% of us riders with standard settings I did look into this before I managed to get hold of the springs, and I think it might be the best option, even if it's just the front end. It might even manage to free up a couple of quid which can go towards getting an exhaust (needed to get the noise levels track legal) & dyno time too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couchcommando Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 I did look into this before I managed to get hold of the springs, and I think it might be the best option, even if it's just the front end. It might even manage to free up a couple of quid which can go towards getting an exhaust (needed to get the noise levels track legal) & dyno time too.Gotta be the way forward but I'd do both ends, standard bikes work well on track so you can't go wrong, you could sell yours as a set then and get good money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted October 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 Imagine how much cash I'd free up if I just sold the whole thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couchcommando Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 Imagine how much cash I'd free up if I just sold the whole thing...Yup, keep the spare wheels and just buy a standard GSXR600,it'll handle, fuel properly and pass noise tests Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damnthistinleg Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 I may be wrong but if you are using all but the last 16mm of travel in the forks, I really don't think your springs are too hard. Generally on slow, tight corners when you turn in, are you still on the brakes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocyboy Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 I may be wrong but if you are using all but the last 16mm of travel in the forks, I really don't think your springs are too hard. Generally on slow, tight corners when you turn in, are you still on the brakes? Must resist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefatman Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 All of us slow guys talk faster than we ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted October 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 DTTL, how much fork travel do you have left on track with preload on minimum? I would have thought that if most of us wound our preload out fully on track the travel would be all but totally used up. With preload at about 40% I got just over 25mm travel (from memory, check earlier posts), which is firm by any measure. Either way, I've come to the conclusion that the way to go, on the budget I'm on at the moment at least, is to stockify it. That way i get a couple of quid to pay a chunk of the johnny foreigner jaunt, plus get the bike in a slightly more flattering stance. Hopefully. And KP, if you're staying at home, don't get too deep in the speculation, otherwise we'll all swear to secrecy which'll only frustrate you. What goes on in Spain stays in Spain, unless you cough up for a stamp, in which case you might get a post card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted October 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 Just got an email back from Ten Kate too, their recommended rate for track use on these forks was 8.5, but they've sold out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocyboy Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 All of us slow guys talk faster than we ride. Not me, I talk myself as slow an low as possible. That way people get a surprise when they see that I don't need stabilisers. I'll be sightseeing around that track in Spain. How did you find KAIS Loz? I was thinking of getting an overhaul done on the Mille over the winter and they are the nearest to me (Maxton can go fuck themselves with a shitty splintered stick). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted October 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 Not me, I talk myself as slow an low as possible. That way people get a surprise when they see that I don't need stabilisers. I'll be sightseeing around that track in Spain. How did you find KAIS Loz? I was thinking of getting an overhaul done on the Mille over the winter and they are the nearest to me (Maxton can go fuck themselves with a shitty splintered stick). I'm not sure, but I don't think I've ever dealt with a less arsed bunch of individuals. I'm well into double figures of "We'll ring you back" but I've never been rung back once, apart from on the day when I was supposed to collect my forks the first time, when they'd had them for 10 days, then about 2 hours before I said I was coming in to collect them, they called to say they couldn't do them as they couldn't get the springs. That said, if you're willing to do the running around for them, then they're a friendly bunch, nice to chat to etc. If only they'd told me the right spring rate to save me £35 on those, then the £20 (a bargain, it has to be said) for the fitting, then I'd perhaps be a bit happier with them. KP, you say MTC was the importer, I take it you mean MCT, rather than the exhaust people? if so, they said they couldn't get the springs too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocyboy Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 See that was the lazy attitude I got from Maxton. I don't want to give my hard earned to people who think they're doing me a favour taking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damnthistinleg Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 DTTL, how much fork travel do you have left on track with preload on minimum? It's hard to say because I've never had the need to try it. but with the preload set as I like it, I usually have around 20-25mm of travel left showing on the forks after a track day. My point is that within the range of preload adjustment available to you, even if it is at one end of that range, you are using almost the whole stroke of the front suspension during the course of your riding and if you braked any harder or encountered any bumps under your heaviest braking, you'd be in danger of bottoming out. That being the case, a softer spring will only bring that point further into the range of your available preload adjustment. As for such small amounts of increased preload leading to drastically reduced travel, I don't get it. It just doesn't seem to make any sense. Regardless of what the fault is, I think you are doing the right thing by going back to standard. At least you will be able to work from a proven benchmark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted October 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 At least you will be able to work from a proven benchmark. That's about it, isn't it. Add this to the fact that between swapping the bouncy bits for stock I might be able to free up £350 or so, and that I need to get a quieter exhaust to get allowed on anywhere, it all makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlik Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 See that was the lazy attitude I got from Maxton. I don't want to give my hard earned to people who think they're doing me a favour taking it.I got the same attitude from kias, they got my money that once, they wont get it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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