V6Jon Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 Afternoon all, As part of the overheating issues I am having with my SRAD at the moment I have been considering the possibility that it is being caused by the bike running lean as a result of the exhaust and filter it has fitted. Unfortunately there doesnt seem to be anyone in Guernsey who has both a working dyno and an operator who knows how to use it, so I was wondeing if was possible to get an AFR meter to find out what it doing now so I can experiment with jets and carb settings. Ideally it would consist of the following : A sensor to go down the end of the silencer A clamp to go over one of the leads to measure RPM A box of tricks to tie the two together If such a thing existed I could go for a quick blat, download an AFR graph to the laptop, mess with the carbs, go for a quick blat, download the new graph, fuck it up a bit more and just continue until it's right ! So am I oversimplifying things ? and does such a box of smoke and magic exist ? I have had a quick look around the internet and most guages and meters seem to be designed for permenant dash mounting and use a standard wideband lambda probe screwed into a boss in the exhaust, however this would mean getting a Ti boss made up and then shipping the pipe to the UK to get it welded in !! Cheers Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefatman Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lm1.php But I doubt it is the fueling that is causing your bike to run hot. Better to check the carbs, stick them back to standard and run a standard air filter, then go looking over your cooling system as that is more likely the cause of the problem. How hot is it running when it gets hot, much over 110 degrees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porter_jamie Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 dynojet do one too called a wideband commander and i think it is awesome, it has a 2" gauge which you can watch as you ride along. i think it logs tps, and rpm and afr too so you can download it to excel afterwards. makes everything so much easier when you have a proper measure of afr its not funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmanb1h Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 got one of these http://www.pedparts.co.uk/product/1551/koso-mini-lcd-air-fuel-afr-meter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V6Jon Posted June 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 I have started a thread about the overheating elsewhere, but in short the symptoms are that the bike warms up normally, but then just keeps getting hotter and hotter. Riding at 20 mph or more the bike sits at normal temp but as soon as you stop in traffic or ride slowly in traffic / filtering the temp starts to climb. Both temp sensors appear to be working normally as the fan kicks in at exactly 107 on the guage where it should, and this does cool things down, but as soon as the fan turns off again the temp starts heading up again. I am currently checking the cooling system as this is obviously the first point of call, the system was flushed and refilled last year with new coolant and I have a new thermostat on the bench waiting to be fitted as soon as I can find the time. However I would still like to get the fuelling sorted, or at least check it is in the right ballpark, and a day / half day on a dyno is expensive enough, but it starts getting ridiculous once you add on ferry costs, time off work, accomodation etc !! Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V6Jon Posted June 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 Without logging rpm, throttle position and speed any AFR logging is meaningless. I've used the Innovate motorsports LM-1 in conjunction with an AIM dash/logger in the past. But you can't jet or map fuelling based solely on this. Ther are too many variables which will affect the readings you are getting - that's why dyno's were invented, to give a controlled and repeatable environment for fuelling and ignition set up. You need to get the bike on a dyno to set up the base jetting or mapping for the best power and then use on bike logging to make sure that any changes you make to alter throttle response don't take the AFR into dangerous ratio's. Thanks for the suggestions everyone, following on from Mille's comments above, just how much information can be gleaned from the TPS when you have CV carbs ?? at low revs you can twist the throttle as much as you like with no effect as the vacumn slides only open / needes lift and increase fuel/air flow as the engine dictates ? And I appreciate my best bet would be to get the bike to someone who knows their dyno and how to set up carbs (Daz a melted sliders had struck me as a good option) however when I first started looking at this i was hoping to find a cheap widget I could clip into the exhaust outlet just to see if it was running dangerously lean as I would imagine it would have to be very very lean to cause the engine to overheat. Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V6Jon Posted June 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 Because without logging TPS you've got no way of determining how much load the engine was under or how wide the throttle was open to understand which elemt of the fuelling you need to address. You need to cross reference throttle opening against rpm delta to work out whether the engine was bogging down or spinning up if nothing else. Thanks for the explanation, I hadn't considered rpm delta at all, that makes a bit more sense ! Edit: if it's that lean as to make it overheat your spark plugs will confirm this with a quick inspection. There is always someone who insists on pointing out the obvious to the idiot I had genuinely not thought of checking the plugs, I will whip those out for a look when I get the time to change the thromstat, I even have a Haynes with all those pretty pictures of plugs in ! Cheers Mille Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garage19 Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 Without logging rpm, throttle position and speed any AFR logging is meaningless. I've used the Innovate motorsports LM-1 in conjunction with an AIM dash/logger in the past. But you can't jet or map fuelling based solely on this. Ther are too many variables which will affect the readings you are getting - that's why dyno's were invented, to give a controlled and repeatable environment for fuelling and ignition set up. You need to get the bike on a dyno to set up the base jetting or mapping for the best power and then use on bike logging to make sure that any changes you make to alter throttle response don't take the AFR into dangerous ratio's. I've mapped quite a few cars from scratch solely with my trusty old LM1 feeding into the ecu's data logging. Also did a turbo Z1000 with a PC using the innovate logging with the additional inputs box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garage19 Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 Modern load cell synod are great for the last 5 percent but most of them are used by monkeys and have insufficient cooling and control of the cell environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 You've done the thing with the gsxr thou headers, haven't you? Mine ran stupidly lean when I did it. Also, your bike is overheating when you're at small throttle openings, when you're crawling in traffic etc? Having been there and done that, plus hundreds of others who've been and done the same, 99% of us ended up swapping the pilot jets to the next size up. Obviously, continue with the cooling system investigation, but do the jets too, it's an hours worth of work and even if it doesn't sort your heat issues, it will fuel better anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V6Jon Posted June 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 You've done the thing with the gsxr thou headers, haven't you? Mine ran stupidly lean when I did it. Also, your bike is overheating when you're at small throttle openings, when you're crawling in traffic etc? Having been there and done that, plus hundreds of others who've been and done the same, 99% of us ended up swapping the pilot jets to the next size up. Obviously, continue with the cooling system investigation, but do the jets too, it's an hours worth of work and even if it doesn't sort your heat issues, it will fuel better anyway. Yes Loz, I have got 1000 headers on mine along with a fruity Arrow can, when I fitted the headers I had the carbs ultrasonically cleaned and changed the jets. Standard are 127.5 mains on pots 1 & 4, 125 mains on pots 2 & 3 and 12.5 pilots all round and I changed mine to 130 mains on 1 & 4, 127.5 mains on 2 & 3 and 15 all round. The bike feels fine to ride, but something is clearly not as it should be ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V6Jon Posted June 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 Bugger the plugs look fine ! Shall post more details in the original thread I started about the overheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.