Overheating R1

[outkast]

My 14B (2009) runs around the high 70's when moving, get stuck in traffic and it shoots up. I've seen 113 on the gauge in summer with the fans running, they come on around 103/105 degrees.

[MonkeyJim]

I guess the Xv and 5pw rads would be quite similar so it's one thing I will check this. Did it overheat a lot too?

yeah the rads themselves are very similar physically. The 5pw engine uses the same block as the 4xv/5jj, but with fuel injection instead of carbs.

one of the differences though between the 4xv and the later models is how the temperature sensor / fan switch etc works

on the 4xv there is a temp sender and a separate fan switch, wheras on the 5JJ and later models the temp sender and fan switch were combined into a single thermo relay. IIRC.

(so if you're ever replacing a rad on the early models make sure you get the right one - they are model specific but a lot of the ones on ebay and some breakers are listed as 4xv/5jj which is incorrect)

Dai, if yours is a 4xv and the fan is working as it should I'd be tempted to change the temp sender*, it might be giving you a false reading.

But when all's said and done they do run very hot in traffic...

*I might have a spare one knocking around, let me know if you want to try it.

[dai1984]

yeah the rads themselves are very similar physically. The 5pw engine uses the same block as the 4xv/5jj, but with fuel injection instead of carbs.

one of the differences though between the 4xv and the later models is how the temperature sensor / fan switch etc works

on the 4xv there is a temp sender and a separate fan switch, wheras on the 5JJ and later models the temp sender and fan switch were combined into a single thermo relay. IIRC.

(so if you're ever replacing a rad on the early models make sure you get the right one - they are model specific but a lot of the ones on ebay and some breakers are listed as 4xv/5jj which is incorrect)

Dai, if yours is a 4xv and the fan is working as it should I'd be tempted to change the temp sender*, it might be giving you a false reading.

But when all's said and done they do run very hot in traffic...

*I might have a spare one knocking around, let me know if you want to try it.

Cheers,

It's the 5pw so the sender and switch are one unit. The fan is coming on at 105 but doesn't cool the bike on the move (when using greater than idle revs obviously) but does at a stand still. If the sender was faulty then the fan wouldnt come on at all or a different temperature? I'm concerned that it can reach these higher temps while cruising on A roads where it didn't previously, especially as its pissing coolant out.

Not been able to look at it yet but ill get the sniff tester on it first and pressure test the system. If that's ok ill check the stat and swap the rad cap with my mates R6, flush the system again and put new coolant in and we how it goes. Don't think it's a water pump as the coolant moves under revs and it would heat up a lot faster than it does currently.

[MonkeyJim]

if it's pissing coolant out (presumably the expansion bottle is overflowing) and the fan is working as it should, then it sounds to me like the rad cap is a likely suspect.... provided you don't have an air lock somewhere causing the same symptoms.

that's the easy and simple test/fix.

otherwise it might be a head gasket problem. not a common problem on the R1, but one of which I had personal experience with my 4xv.

let me tell you a story. basically my bike had pretty much stood from new - it only had 650 miles on it when i bought it in 03/04.

due to the long period of standing and without a coolant change, one of the small dowels that locate the head onto the block had corroded, and caused a pin-prick hole in the head gasket.

a tickover it was fine, but under load the engine would over pressurise the coolant and force the coolant out into the expansion bottle, which would then overflow.

took ages to find the problem. I replaced the 'stat, temp sender, fan switch (even though I knew they were good, I just had to eliminate them)

eventually I gave up and took it to my local Yam dealers. they couldn't work it out either and eventually they took the head off to discover the problem

head gasket and offending dowel replaced, I never had a problem with it again. According to the senior mechanic at the dealers who worked on it, it was the first time he'd ever seen that problem or had to replace a head gasket on an R1 due to that.

hope that's not the case with yours mate, but thought I'd mention it in case it's of help.

[dai1984]

I remember reading your story on here previously. Did you have to skim the head? Hoping its not the gasket as ill be too tempted to do some preemptive mantenence on the gearbox. That will cost me time and money.

The bike did 4000 miles between 2004 and 2009 but in 07 the owner took it to France where it was just kept in storage. The 5pw has the wierd hot idle device on the throttle bodies, if its adjusted incorrectly would that cause overheating on such a scale?

My sniff tester has arrived so I guess I'll be closer to ruling out HGF!

[MonkeyJim]

No they didn't have to skim the head (thankfully) they just replaced the HG and the dowel, put it back together and it was fine.

IIRC it's an engine out job (or at least pretty much an engine out job) I don't think you can remove the head whilst the engine's in the frame.

sorry no idea about the 'weird hot idle device'

and I can't remember if they did a sniff tester on mine or not, or whether it was conclusive or not. I vaguely remember they did and it wasn't conclusive.

as for the gearbox comment.... contrary to what it says in the Haynes manual, you don't have to remove the cylinder head in order to split the crankcases. when I did my gearbox I left the cylinder head attached to the upper case - meant a lot less work and saved having to re-time the cams etc

if you need any pointers on the gearbox job gimme a shout I can give you some hints and tips.

good luck with it

[dai1984]

What did you do to the box on yours? I haven't had any trouble except it does crunch into second from first under hard acceleration, sometimes giving a false neutral. Thought if the engines out I may as well get in there. Also known as making work for myself.

[MonkeyJim]

long story short...

the bike's original engine expired due to a fuck-up by a garage when they fitted a slipper clutch for me.

I bought a replacement engine and fitted it only to find it had the 'jumping out of 2nd/3rd gear' problem. But I didn't have the time to take it out and back for a refund as I was off on holiday on the bike to the Ring in less than a couple of weeks. so I got half my money back on the engine and lived with it.

then, without the pressure of time, I removed the gearbox from my original engine (using the knackered engine as a test - I'd never done anything like this before). and having just done it once, I then took engine no.2 out of bike, opened it up and put the original gearbox into it.

Job jobbed. I sold the R1 to a mate when I bought the k6... the gearbox is still going strong!

full story here if you want to see what's involved in splitting the cases if gearbox work is required (engine stripdown starts on p.4)

http://pbmagforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=17440&hl=houston&st=0

the gearbox was actually pretty straightforward if I'm honest - it's some cogs and circlips on a couple of shafts. most of the hard work is getting the engine out of the frame and removing all the bits to enable the crankcases to be split. and you'll see from the pics that I left the cylinder head in place