EvilSpike Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Afternoon I've swapped the standard chain blocks on my ZX6R for a set of lightech captive ones which enable me to use the Harris type of paddock stands in that the hook part is on the bike whilst the bobbin is on the stand. I did this after the bobbin lug on my swingarm was damaged in a crash. The problem is that the lightech captive chain tug assembly is slightly wider than standard. This mean that when my axle is in place, I struggle to do the castle nut up enough to allow me to put a split pin through the nut and axle. I have to torque it up more than recommended to allow the hole and lower part of the castle nut to line up sufficiently. I can't machine down the chain tugs, so I've three options: machine down or find a slimmer castle nut. Get a custom made axle where the hole for a split pin is a few mm further out. Don't worry about the split pin or R clip. Drill another hole through my axle at 90° to the factory one a few mm further out. Either way I think routinely over-tightening the rear axle isn't the way forwards. Anyone know how much a custom rear axle would cost? I've noticed a fair few bikes don't bother with split pins, is it just KHI being a bit over cautious? I can't but help think it's a good idea, the consequences of a lose axle would probably tickle at worse... Thanks all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porter_jamie Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 why can't you machine down the chain tug? if it was me i wouldnt make a new axle, or drill a hole in it. i'd try and make all the mods easily reversable so i could put it back to standard whenever i liked. how many turns from 'ideal tight' to 'lined up with the hole tight' is it? then measure the pitch, tells you how much to machine off the back of the nut / the chain tug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilSpike Posted March 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Because they look like this and would be quite complicated to machine down smoothly, as well as reducing the thickness of them and probably reducing their strength & durability. I think it's a good 180° I'm having to turn the nut past the ideal torque, plus I've ditched the washer that was between the original chain block and nut just to get a slimmer than before split pin in. The simplest suggestion would either be don't bother with the split pin, just torque it up or get a slimmer nut. Or I could get a drilled axle nut and lockwire it each time, although that would quickly get tiring each time I needed to switch wheels... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 I would go with the slimmer nut. Its the cheapest and easiest part to replace should it be damaged or broken. However, you must make sure the new slimmer nut is capable of safely securing the axle in the bike, and wont lead to the wheel falling out at speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilSpike Posted March 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 you must make sure the new slimmer nut is capable of safely securing the axle in the bike Erm, so how do I go about doing that? I agree that it's certainly the easiest way of fixing this, but I'm not sure how I find out. I could just put a slightly smaller nut on and if the wheel doesn't fall out and I don't die horribly then I could consider it a success, however there are a few drawbacks to that plan I can identify all ready... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 I see no obvious flaws in the plan. How badly can it go wrong? If its fine and nothing happens. Then your good. If its not fine and you fall off and get hurt youll get better. Then your good again. If its not fine and you die falling off, then youll know nothing about it. Also nothing to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilSpike Posted March 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Allright, I'll do that then. Although any other advice will also be gratefully received, especially if it minimises the falling off horribly and having a spot of death issues. Glad to see you're ok, how did the second race day go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superdunc Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Spike, as you've figured out, recomended torque, plus 180o is a very bad idea. Ideally you'd get one of the axle blocks spot faced, where the nut sits, it can only be 1mm-1.5mm max, and no difficult for a competent machine shop to do. second best would be to drill a second hole for the split pin. A narrower nut could work, as long as it will take the correct torque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilSpike Posted March 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Could I walk into a nut and bolt shop and ask for an M16 (or whatever it is) nut that will take xNm? I really don't think that machining down the silver inner bit of the chain block in the picture above is a good idea. I'm guessing that you also think a new axle would be prohibitively expensive to be made, and made well? You coming to Snett in May? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 If it's only a millimetre could you cut the castellated slots in the nut 1 mm deeper? That way you'd still maintain most of the original threaded surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superdunc Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Could I walk into a nut and bolt shop and ask for an M16 (or whatever it is) nut that will take xNm? I really don't think that machining down the silver inner bit of the chain block in the picture above is a good idea. I'm guessing that you also think a new axle would be prohibitively expensive to be made, and made well? You coming to Snett in May? I think you will struggle to get a thinner nut of the shelf. I can't see a problem with machining the silver part down a little, it's only a spacer effectively and not carring any load. I hope to be at Snet in may yes, but funds are short at the moment, so I haven't booked yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul8899 Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 The locking mechanism on a gilles nut would enable you to use a shorter axle , they use a grub screw which pushes a nylon bung into the thread . I changed mine over as when I fitted a socket guide the locking tab on the nut wasn't engaged in the axle properly, hasn't fallen off yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 Cut the hole in the axle so it goes a tiny weeny bit deeper further outwards and you can fit the pin in? You're not making it any weaker as it's the bit that's sticking out, rather than the bit that's got the load on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyJim Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 is there a washer that goes under the rear axle nut? if there is, get a thinner washer. I had the same problem when I put some Lightech chain adjusters and lifters on my k6 thou. (they are not listed for the k6 model, only 07 onwards, but they fit perfectly, apart from the exact same problem you have - they are slightly wider than standard) the OE washer under the axle nut was 3mm thick, I had some thinner ones made by Projection Components (Kayla on here) and job jobbed PS: doh just realised this pic shows the OEM 3mm thick washer fitted....! Kayla made me one that was 1.00mm thick and that is now fitted and works a treat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bezzer Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 Some bikes don't have the castle nut but use a metal insert lock nut, doesn't make it unsafe even a busa has one, I'm sure you could find one that uses the same thread as the ZX, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilSpike Posted March 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 Erm... I've all ready binned the 3mm thick washer. Those Gilles Lock Nuts are £60! Although I guess that's cheap compared to a wheel coming loose, and cheaper than a custom made axle. If I have to cut the dips in the castellated nut down I'd have to cut all of them down. Enlarging the split pin hole in the axle a little outwards would work simply I guess too. Milling bits and a pillar drill I guess? Or just buy the shiny trinket... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilSpike Posted March 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 Thanks for all your help too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmfab01 Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 Personally I'd turn a little bit from the back of the nut, say 0.5mm/1mm & also a little bit from the inside of the spindle head 0.5mm/1mm again then you get extra length but you aren't going too far on one component. If you measure the threads & they are 1 mm apart & you need an extra 180 deg (1/2 turn) to get a pin through then you need an extra 0.5mm If you decide to put it all back to standard all you need to do is put a washer the thickness you turned off on to the spindle first before putting it through the swinging arm/wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyJim Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 Erm... I've all ready binned the 3mm thick washer. Those Gilles Lock Nuts are £60! Although I guess that's cheap compared to a wheel coming loose, and cheaper than a custom made axle. If I have to cut the dips in the castellated nut down I'd have to cut all of them down. Enlarging the split pin hole in the axle a little outwards would work simply I guess too. Milling bits and a pillar drill I guess? Or just buy the shiny trinket... ahh sorry missed the bit where you said you'd junked the washer already. I looked at the Gilles lock nuts when I first had the same problem... but I didn't like the look of the plastic grub screw nonsense I would say the easiest option would be to just drill a new hole for the split pin? rather than enlarge the slots on the castellated nut. that way, you can just put it back to standard easily and the new hole wouldn't show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayla Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 Maybe buy a second hand rear spindle and modify that to suit. There's very rarely any need at all to make custom spindles up*, there's usually something available from another bike (possibly from another manufacturer) that'll do the job. * unless you simply absolutely must have Ti spindles to get your 0-60 bike meet time down, dahlink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyJim Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 Spike not sure if you got this sorted in the end or not...... ....but thought you might be interested to know Lightech are now doing some rear axle nuts (like Gilles but without the cost of Ti) http://www.lightech....da.asp?cod=D001 also listed on ebay via one of the uk importers, moto.gb (I got my lightech chain adjusters from them, very good service BTW) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151026767605 I'm seriously considering one myself now to replace the stock Suzuki one.... which now looks a bit shit with the Lightechs PS probolt also do one http://www.pro-bolt....25150003z2.html which is machined with a captive washer - height of 15mm compared to 12mm for the Gilles nut http://www.gillestooling.com/cms/shop/products/art-352/safety-nut-acm-titanium-m25x15?tab=images need to do some measuring... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilchicken0 Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 Why not get the original bobbin mount repaired. Get a plain flange nut and use a thin locking nut on top - like the Yamaha FZR400's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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