Thom_1991 Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 So riding the bike into work today and the dash dies. Oh dear I know what follows and sure enough the bike turns off. Pushed it the rest of the way and got the multimeter out at dinner. 11.5 Volts in the battery and 10 (!) when its running. I've no idea how it managed to start with that but anyway. Mark who I bought it from is very kindly sending me the Reg/Rec off his track 750 which he knows to be good. I'm going to charge the battery tomorrow and see if it will hold a charge but what do we think, does this sound like a symptom of a bad Reg/Rec or the alternator output. Looking through the service history its had a new Stator a couple of years ago so I can't see/ hope it isn't that. If I can get the battery to hold a charge is it best to check the Stator output as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaycee Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Right I had the same problem on my SRAD, it cut out on me a few times. I'm not sure if they sorted out the problem with the loom on your model, but on my SRAD, under the LHS faring, there's a big plug on the loom that was prone to corrosion. This was causing all sort of random electrical fault like moving shorts, random draining of the battery etc. Myself and Van Winkle spent the best part of 3 hours cleaning out the plug terminals with contact cleaner, small screwdrivers and emery boards. The bike ran faultlessly after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hipringle Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Tom I think the batt should be fine. It held a chrge well before and when it discharged it wouldnt have had time to sulphate. If it was left for ages uncharged then it prob would be knackered but hopefully it should be good to go. Plug it all in and take a reading. (Dont buy a bike of that dodgy fat geordie) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick448 Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Could be reg rec but also dodgy connections as stated above. On my Blackbird I replaced the RR and generator to no avail. It was actually a burnt starter solenoid which was at fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hipringle Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Right I had the same problem on my SRAD, it cut out on me a few times. I'm not sure if they sorted out the problem with the loom on your model, but on my SRAD, under the LHS faring, there's a big plug on the loom that was prone to corrosion. This was causing all sort of random electrical fault like moving shorts, random draining of the battery etc. Myself and Van Winkle spent the best part of 3 hours cleaning out the plug terminals with contact cleaner, small screwdrivers and emery boards. The bike ran faultlessly after that. Actually I remember Rockingham about 3 or 4 years ago I had a charging prob wih a different 750 k1, Mark (csnmmjsmj) from this forum loaned me the bttery off his 400 to keep me going, turns out it was a chaffed wire near the rectified on the loom, dont know if is any significance but worth a half hour looking and twiddling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby601 Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 On both mine I have chopped that plug out and soldered the wires together. The 1 most recently I did it with the reg/reg without replacing it, has been perfect since and saved a few pounds on a new reg/rec. Check the plug as it has likely melted causing a short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom_1991 Posted November 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 As in the block connector connecting the Reg Rec to the wires melts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMSMJ1 Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 it obviously runs on proper northern electricity..you need to get out of Bucks, dahling... BTW - where is the comedy moustache smily? hmmm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Yes. Basically do a search on here for reg/rec issues, it'll be nigh on the same as about 99% of bikes, give or take a tiny amount of voltage or revs from one bike to another. What you want is AC between all 3 phases on the stator and DC coming out of the reg/rec. It's that simple. Obviously, a melting connector is a problem too. If it's not the charging circuit (which is is as you're bike's not charging properly, from what you've described above), there's corrosion (on inj SRADs at least) that's known to be a bummer, it's on a block that lives under the air intake on the left hand side. I'm sure there'll be a corresponding one on a Y model too, if not in the same place, somewhere near by. This will cause things to do wierdness similar to what you've described, but the crucial difference is that you've measured the voltage at the battery and shown it to be shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hipringle Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Lawrence, ac, phases, dc etc, tell me you didnt copy and paste that from somewhere.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Ah shuddupaya phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom_1991 Posted November 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 On both mine I have chopped that plug out and soldered the wires together. The 1 most recently I did it with the reg/reg without replacing it, has been perfect since and saved a few pounds on a new reg/rec. Check the plug as it has likely melted causing a short. Give this man a sausage. One of the Reg/Rec pins has discoloured and has melted plastic around its base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hipringle Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Any news on anything Tom (assuminng the regulator turned up in todays post) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom_1991 Posted November 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 It turned up, I did a diode test on it and there's voltage between pins that there isn't on the knacked one. Thankyou very much Also the loom end of the Reg Rec connection you can see the pin that had melted plastic around it also appears to have corroded and the block connector is "chipped" Need to make sure I Weather proof it so it doesn't corrode again. So was it the corrosion on this pin that caused it to go pop I wonder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaycee Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Good find Thom, I hope its just that mate. Check further back in the loom, towards the front where I mentioned the junction in the loom. A high impedance down there can cause all sorts of crap. I thought my reg/rec had gone too at one point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hipringle Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Fingers crossed thats all it is, sorry for the hassle matey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom_1991 Posted November 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 To check the AC output I can just put the tester on the three pins passing the AC to Reg rec, but just not connect the RR, right? And no worries Mark it's incredibly nice of you to help me out. I've ordered some dielectric grease so its a fairing off job this weekend.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 To check the AC output I can just put the tester on the three pins passing the AC to Reg rec, but just not connect the RR, right? You want to unplug the reg/rec, stick your multimeter A: up your arse or B: onto AC and measure between 2 of the 3 outputs of the alternator. Go round the 3 so you've checked between them all, literally one probe on one pin, the other probe on the other, as opposed to between a pin and the frame or anything else. Each should be the same and each should rise when you rev it up; this is unregulated AC at this point. Then check for DC on the output of the reg/rec, you should have 13 ish volts rising to about 14.5v as you rev it, then flattening off, plateauing, if you speak posh like, which is the regulator doing its thing on your rectified DC. If it keep on going up as you rev it and never flattens off, your regulator is toast. Funnily enough, this sounds like exactly the same thing as I had on the srad, a knackered alternator output cable, which was causing the reg/rec to be running just off 2 phases, which just slowly drained the battery while I was riding back from the 01 HQ with a broken wrist, just after discovering my tax & MOT had run out. I think that goes down as a shit day. Anyway, I binned the whole idea of a plug entirely, just soldered the cables together, bit of heatshrink on each of them, bit of tape round the lot, then some spiral binding stuff to help stop them being bashed about too much: People tell me soldering and bikes don't mix because of vibrations. I say they've not used enough stuff round the outside! As you can probably tell, so long as it's got a 3 phase input and 2 wires out of it for the DC, more or less any reg/rec will do the job, so long as it can cope with the current drawn by your battery just after you've started the bike (which is going to be the time when your battery is at its lowest under normal use). If you've any doubts about how gutsy your charging circuit is and your battery is a bit low, turn your lights off for a few minutes after you've started your bike; the additional draw on the reg/rec from the lights when it's struggling to cope with charging a flat battery might be enough to tip it over the edge. And no worries Mark it's incredibly nice of you to help me out. What you really mean is "Fuck off, you've sold me a dud bike and now you've given me something which will cause me to be electrocuted, right between my legs, yer bastard!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hipringle Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 Most definately copied and pasted with a few bits thrown in to put me off, great work ugly, truely great work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom_1991 Posted November 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 Okay cool I'm hoping the Alternator is fine given it had a new stator 2 years ago and also that the corroded pin was on the DC out from the RR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 On mine too I actually binned the -ve cable back to the loom off the reg/rec and just put it to a ring terminal about 6" from the reg/rec itself and earthed it on the subframe. Makes no odds where it's earthed to and a nice short cable is much easier to manage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom_1991 Posted November 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 Just checked on the wiring diagram and the pin that had melted plastic around its base was the DC +ve back to the battery. Hence no charging voltage, right? Also do we think its the corrosion caused by the hole in the Loom end block connector thats caused the already marginal Reg rec to shit itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 Just checked on the wiring diagram and the pin that had melted plastic around its base was the DC +ve back to the battery. Hence no charging voltage, right? Also do we think its the corrosion caused by the hole in the Loom end block connector thats caused the already marginal Reg rec to shit itself. Yes. It's probably been arcing for a bit, which is a massive current draw, and has hence toasted stuff. You could, if you were really clever, do away with the whole DC stuff going trough a block business and, like I said, simply attach a ring terminal to the DC outputs and go directly to the battery, or on the -ve, just to the frame nearby. Keeps it a bit more simple for easy fault finding in the future? As it was the +ve that was knackered then that'd be the reason it died in short order. On my srad it was just one phase of the alternator that went, and so as long as I didn't have the lights, stereo or air-con switched on it allowed me to nurse it home 70 odd miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom_1991 Posted November 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 Sounds good, will just disconnect the wiring and get someone in hardware at work to sort it solder on ring terminals to the DC out myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom_1991 Posted November 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 Fitted + fixed. Reading a bit high 14ish volts across the terminals but it doesn't go over 15. I had to scrape the loom end connector of the pin that melted to get continuity between that and the battery +ve terminal. Will nurse it home and clean that all up properly and check the stator output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaycee Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 This is good news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom_1991 Posted November 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 FFS Side stand switch appears to have given up. Put bike into gear. engine dies. Check sidestand is up, try again, dies again. Try it again holding the switch in with my hand, put it into gear (tricky this) still does it. I can't see why this has decided to play up, the only connectors that have been touched are under the seat unit, one for the reg rec and one for the rear tail light etc. Meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 This is a pain in the bottom. However, since you've got the soldering gear out already... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaycee Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 FFS Side stand switch appears to have given up. Put bike into gear. engine dies. Check sidestand is up, try again, dies again. Try it again holding the switch in with my hand, put it into gear (tricky this) still does it. I can't see why this has decided to play up, the only connectors that have been touched are under the seat unit, one for the reg rec and one for the rear tail light etc. Meh. ...and this goes back to my story about my SRAD's loom. I had all manner of random electrical faults. Get your meter out and go through the loom young man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom_1991 Posted November 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 Even bigger facepalm moment, looking through the manual the block connector for the sidestand switch is under the tank. I could quite easily have disconnected it and shorted it out, which would have got the bike home, if that was the issue. Tomorrows job sorted then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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