Centre Lock Wheel Hubs

[tonk]

Does anyone know anything about converting a 5 stud wheel, mounted on to a single-sided swingarm, into a centre lock hub? I've tried posting photos of what I mean but I'm restricted to 'no images' at work. Is it the sort of thing Kayla could do? It would involve some sort of plate which bolts to the final drive hub but has studs on it to mount the wheel and a centre post to take the final, giant nut with a spring clip thingy. Yes, I am insane.

[mattyzx6r]

Would it not space the wheel out to one side though?

I do understand what you mean and I think there are a few folk on here (the goodship PB) who could design/build such a thing.

Or would swapping the hub for one from a different model (with what you want) be an option? Dont Ducati run a big 'ol nut???

[Kayla]

Does anyone know anything about converting a 5 stud wheel, mounted on to a single-sided swingarm, into a centre lock hub? I've tried posting photos of what I mean but I'm restricted to 'no images' at work. Is it the sort of thing Kayla could do? It would involve some sort of plate which bolts to the final drive hub but has studs on it to mount the wheel and a centre post to take the final, giant nut with a spring clip thingy. Yes, I am insane.

Not me, sorry, but wouldn't the extra distance from the hub put extra load on the bearings?

[lorenzo]

This isn't an especially uncommon thing, nc30 guys sometimes use ducati & VFR750/800 wheels I think, I don't know the specifics of how it's done, I'd imagine it involves making sure the offset of the wheel is OK and that the hole in the middle of the wheel is the right size and taper.

Of course, if you're asking because you've got a big single bolt type hub and you want to put a multi bolt wheel on there, that's the easy way to do things, if you're wanting to swap a multi bolt hub to one big whopper bolt, that's a bit trickier, but I don't see how the load on the bearing would be any greater; either system would simply have just one bearing in the middle of it (it's not like the multi-bolt system has 4 or 5 different bearings, is it).

[kaighn80]

they are saying that the forces from the wheel through the swing arm if it were spaced out towards the open side of the arm would increase the distance that the same force would be applied over, its like tyre levers, if you try to take a tyre off with a couple of 6" bars then your going to sweat but if you use 3' levers then you will sweat less because the force you apply will be more effective because of the longer lever distances despite the fact that you can still only put all your weight on it. iyswim! are you looking at replacing the whole center bolt thingy so that it has where the studs were locating dowels and a threaded section that goes through the wheel so you can bolt the wheel onto the dowels, i think i know what your talking about something like this i think.

http://www.oocities.org/infieldg/images/rc30Trickrearaxle.jpg

[tonk]

Still having trouble with images..

This is the standard wheel http://www.webbikewo...t-rear-tire.jpg

This is the endurance bike, apparently with the standard wheel (some werew white, others blue). The wheel bolt holes are visible but obviously there is a centre-locking hub on it now. http://de.wikipedia....=20110630081217

And this is what's underneath the endurance bike wheel. The shiny hub is fixed to a standard wheel carrier (the alloy thing with lobes that has the disc attached) but it looks so thin that any offset will be nominal? http://de.wikipedia....=20110630111705

And this is a standard wheel carrier, albeit off a GS but otherwise identical. http://www.motorcycleinfo.co.uk/resources/6795/assets/images/FAQs/rear_wheel/r1200gs_rear_wheel_carrier.jpg

Any thoughts from the technical gurus? If I were to 'commission' one of these, what sort of metal would be needed? And what the hell is the crown shaped spring clip made from? How does it work? (I prefer the look of R clips tbh).

Am I bonkers for even thinking of this? I was looking at Staubli dry-couplings but got up to £800 for 3 before I decided against them. This hub is the biz though!

[Superdunc]

From looking at your pictures I would say the wheel on the endurance bike is machined differently to regain the correct wheel alignment, and is probably a different forging , the "bolt holes" are for the drive pegs, and it will have a taper machined in the centre to seat the wheel nut.

This page has some rally good pics http://www.sjbmwracing.com/RACES/DayFX08.html

If you were to comission an adaptor I would be geting it machined from EN16t, case hardened and finish ground, £600-£800 plus another £300 for an anodized 2014 aluminium nut. The works hubs were Titanium, very very exspensive.

Might be better off contacting one of the teams that ran them to see if they have spares for sale.

[tonk]

From looking at your pictures I would say the wheel on the endurance bike is machined differently to regain the correct wheel alignment, and is probably a different forging , the "bolt holes" are for the drive pegs, and it will have a taper machined in the centre to seat the wheel nut.

This page has some rally good pics http://www.sjbmwraci...ES/DayFX08.html

If you were to comission an adaptor I would be geting it machined from EN16t, case hardened and finish ground, £600-£800 plus another £300 for an anodized 2014 aluminium nut. The works hubs were Titanium, very very exspensive.

Might be better off contacting one of the teams that ran them to see if they have spares for sale.

me= think I'll just get some anodised valve caps.

Thanks for the link Sdunc , off for a browse.

[tonk]

This page has some rally good pics http://www.sjbmwraci...ES/DayFX08.html

I love you and want to have your children.

[Superdunc]

I love you and want to have your children.

That's a generious offer

The number of spare bevel boxes they have in the garage is a worry .

[tonk]

Maybe the spare bevel boxes are for different gearing? There's no other way to change it without a chain/sprockets or a cassette gearbox like the inline fours have. Mine's geared for about 155 which is way short of other race bikes with that capacity/power.

SuperDunc, Would it be cheeky to ask about your knowledge of these bikes and parts? Do you have any other links or sources; I'm trying to find out as much as I can about them but the search terms I'm using don't get very good results cos the bike was never known as the HP2 Sport when it was originally raced.

How would I go about contacting one of the teams? Suppose I could just ring BMW and say, "Can I buy some race parts please?"

[Superdunc]

Good point about the bevel boxes Tonky.

I have absolutly no specific knowledge of these bikes other than the fact that I think they're one of the most beautifully built production bikes ever sold, they are quite stunning.

My knowledge come from google and the fact that I work with racing cars and have designed and comissioned similar items as the hub adaptor in the past.

Mark/foggy of this parish might have knowledge of the teams and people who ran these in world endurance racing, give him a shout.

More here http://www.sjbmwracing.com/

There contact details are here http://www.sjbmw.com/

[Superdunc]

(KLAXON ON/) Be very cautious of entering the world of bespoke race parts. It is my experience that, whatever the manufacturer, a single part will not work in isolation and will require the use of an inordinate number of other parts, unless it is something so isignificant as to not be worth bothering with. Using race parts on a road bike based machine is, in my experience, an exercise in heart ache, frustration and financial ruin. To paraphrse Rob Mac when he once described running a race team "You'd be better off locking yourself in dark room, burning ten pound notes and hitting yourself over the head with a cricket bat for all the good it will do you...."(<KLAXON OFF)

Wise words.

[2moto]

I'd generally agree with Millemille's wise words above. I remember the Ducati 996RS bikes which while looking very similar to their roadbike brethren, very little was common between them. And, trying to use race parts on the road bike was a very frustrating and ulitmately very expensive affair.

That rear wheel conversion, though doesn't look too difficult, based one these two pictures. It might be possible to do within a reasonable budget. I've done a couple of similar conversions on NC30/35 anf VFR750 bikes, but never a BMW.

[tonk]

Thanks Dunc, I'll try Mark/Foggy, and for the links - I'm hoovering up all the info I can on my bike; wished I paid more attention when they were new.

Good point MM, it's just so bloody tempting! The few articles I have read about the race bikes though is just how close they were to the road bikes and looking at the pics seems to back this up.

I know they had different fork legs to allow fast wheel changes but the telelever is the same, the tank was different to comply with regs and the fuel pump was strapped to the frame near the LHS peg. Other than that they're pretty close, esp. engine internals.

PS, MM - was it you who had the chippy with the car done up with the brilliant fake race logos? Did Gray at 01 do it? Gorrany pics?

[tonk]

Sounds interesting 3up, I'd hazard a guess that those hub pegs or studs will screw through the plate into the carrier, hence the holes in the pegs which would allow for them to be turned. I'd also guess that the plate is 2mm thick but that is a guess, is that sort of off-set catastrophic?

I've found some car sites who offer centre lock conversions with hubs made from alloy or titanium. Would an R-clip go through the holes in the end of the hub stub?

Would it help if I took some photos of the wheel where it fits onto the carrier? Feel free to tell me I'm flogging an expensive dead horse.

The race bike even has the original brake disc but it looks to have had the edge ground off to fit the smaller caliper (the rear brembo on the stock bike is a right lump).

[2moto]

Sounds interesting 3up, I'd hazard a guess that those hub pegs or studs will screw through the plate into the carrier, hence the holes in the pegs which would allow for them to be turned. I'd also guess that the plate is 2mm thick but that is a guess, is that sort of off-set catastrophic?

That would be my guess as well, and certainly would make sense. It looks like the "plate" is more than 2 mm thick, though. The additional offset might be compensated for in the wheel, but wouldn't be a huge deal on a road/track bike if not.

I don't think they use an R-clip. Since the wheel nut is on the left side the nut (with standard right hand thread) will be self tightening. Ducati used this method on all their race bikes, although with a left hand thread as the nut is on the right side on Ducatis.

[tonk]

That would be my guess as well, and certainly would make sense. It looks like the "plate" is more than 2 mm thick, though. The additional offset might be compensated for in the wheel, but wouldn't be a huge deal on a road/track bike if not.

I don't think they use an R-clip. Since the wheel nut is on the left side the nut (with standard right hand thread) will be self tightening. Ducati used this method on all their race bikes, although with a left hand thread as the nut is on the right side on Ducatis.

The race (and stock wheel) is a forged brembo and has a flat machined face which would lend itself to skimming very well, but that's the wheel altered for ever. On the links that dunc posted one of the bikes is running a back wheel off either a triumph or a duke, looks nice. Can't figure out how they've converted it.

I could always just glue a pretend nut on the hub