ant802 Posted December 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 And they all involve turning the engine over right? It's all good, as long as you're happy, I am. ok well i'm humbled by your input, you're far too superior for this post......................still no info on running in though...............the original question at hand. much appreciated Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant802 Posted December 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 unfortunately i bought an r1 engine which had been refreshed months before i installed it in the bike, i didn't know this and installed it and fired it up it ran for a few seconds till the cam momentarilly seized and the chain jumped the cam sprocket bending the valves. told the guy what had happened and he apologized for not informing me it had been stood a while, he built me a new head and fitted it for free, he couldn't have done more for me, but take heed you may not be as lucky as i was. oh and by the way it was built with assembly lube. oh bummer, lucky the guy sorted it for you, i'll take note. thanks Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronenige Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Forgive my ignorance, but I dont know any bikes that will make it to the red line in top gear on the road using 1/4 throttle or less. What am I missing? about 80 bhp off the top of my head Ray used to run the zx7rr at 0.7mm squish and 1.0mm piston / valve clearance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignige Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Forgive my ignorance, but I dont know any bikes that will make it to the red line in top gear on the road using 1/4 throttle or less. What am I missing? Some better punctuation on the original post, i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcaztls Posted December 16, 2011 Report Share Posted December 16, 2011 ok well i'm humbled by your input, you're far too superior for this post......................still no info on running in though...............the original question at hand. much appreciated Anthony Okay, I'll say this and then give up because you're clearly not open to something beyond what you've already made your mind up you want to hear... As I've said a few posts above, initial startup is one of the most important parts of the running in process. Just because I didn't give you a full run down of what I'd do to complete the running in (which has already been covered here so I only felt the need to add a little bit of my opinion and advice, not recover stuff) doesn't mean I'm not answering your question in part. If you don't consider it to be relevant, so be it but you're missing a trick. If I thought I was superior, I wouldn't bother posting and trying to help would I? You asked, I replied, it was met for God knows what reason with a couple of antagonistic responses which if that's how you like to play it, I'll spend my time elsewhere. 'Night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted December 16, 2011 Report Share Posted December 16, 2011 Hey Barry, that sounds awesome mate, i have an ex stringer zx7rr n1, 793 cc, now 825cc with a wiseco 1.5mm kit, i had piston to valve clearance issues and had to get a spacer machined, quite simple, mine made 128bhp in its 793cc guise, i've not run it since rebuild, so i'm hoping for 135bhp maybe? how the hell did you get those kit parts? Ant Ha! Many years of searching I can tell you!!! The valve train and head came over from the US, cam's from Australia etc... The only standard parts on my bike now are the bodywork and the frame! I had an N1 last year with a ZX9 motor in it, went like the clappers! I might be able to get hold of a few other kit parts for a 7 and ZXR if you are interested, I'll find out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcaztls Posted December 16, 2011 Report Share Posted December 16, 2011 With the initial running thing, would it be wise to, at least, take of the cam cover and drizzle oil over the cams and cam chain (or gears if you are so inclined to own a mighty honda V4), and turn over by hand a few times, with applications of oil? At the very least? It'll help, but the important parts like journals, shells and bores are lubed 'internally' so to speak. If a motor's been previously run-in then disabling spark and cranking for a few seconds will help there. A few drops of oil down each bore isn't ideal either but at least shows willing on a motor that's been standing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant802 Posted December 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2011 Ha! Many years of searching I can tell you!!! The valve train and head came over from the US, cam's from Australia etc... The only standard parts on my bike now are the bodywork and the frame! I had an N1 last year with a ZX9 motor in it, went like the clappers! I might be able to get hold of a few other kit parts for a 7 and ZXR if you are interested, I'll find out? hi Barry, yes i'd definately be interested in that if you don't mind? thanks Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamo Posted December 16, 2011 Report Share Posted December 16, 2011 Forgive my ignorance, but I dont know any bikes that will make it to the red line in top gear on the road using 1/4 throttle or less. What am I missing? they will if you give them time. My ZZR1200 wont ... sitting at quatrer throttle in top gear you'd be doing well to pull 100mph. about 80 bhp ? Some better punctuation on the original post, i think. Nope ... I'm still lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayRC3045 Posted December 16, 2011 Report Share Posted December 16, 2011 With the initial running thing, would it be wise to, at least, take of the cam cover and drizzle oil over the cams and cam chain (or gears if you are so inclined to own a mighty honda V4), and turn over by hand a few times, with applications of oil? At the very least? Nope , just get someone that knows how to build an engine , and then after a couple of heat cycles let the fooker have it , and just to be sure the engine got a good twating I changed the gearing for run in to 1 down on the front 4 up On the back , after running it in my motor found another 8 rwhp , and the dyno guy says there's still plenty left in the engine Or if your a big drama queen Gaylord , you could fanny about with lube ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant802 Posted December 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2011 Or if your a big drama queen Gaylord , you could fanny about with lube ;-) [/quote chuckle........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Norton Posted December 16, 2011 Report Share Posted December 16, 2011 Fuck me. The bloke who's built himself an early R1 engine that puts out well over 170rwhp reliably (over 40 up on standard) tries to give some tips and advice on how to get the most out of a freshly rebuilt engine and gets grief for it. This forum never ceases to amaze me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayla Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 BTW, when you all say "labouring" the engine, what does that actually mean? I take it to meaning having too much throttle open at low revs, but I am a little confused 30mph in top gear, up a steep hill, on a hot day would be labouring the engine. You kind of know when you're doing it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superdunc Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Some good advice here, my own preference, would be based on what Millemille suggested. My curve ball is regarding the rings, as this seems to be your biggest concern and getting the best sealing from them. Back when I was running F3000 cars we used to send the engines back for refresh every 2000kms, this was part of the lease agreement and not open for discussion. Every refresh saw the entire valve train replaced along with pistons as a matter of course, the shells were inspected and replaced evey other rebuild. But the rings were only inspected and the replaced after every third rebuild, some time they'd go for 4 rebuilds, depending on the oils and warm up procedure used. The reason for this was that the bores were plated ,like I believe you zx6rr is, and as they can't be bored or honed the rings will continue to bed in and produce more power the longer you leave them. Some race engines run soft iron rings which will bed in and produce power very quickly but may only last 1000kms, but since you are running stock rings and havn't touched the bores, why are you replacing them so often? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcaztls Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 You can lightly hone, or rather de-glaze most plated bores in my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porter_jamie Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 My running in procedure for my harry barlow pro porting tuned rd400 (it really is a complete weapon, tz carbs, ignition, pipes etc): 1. remind myself i have brand new crank and pistons, and tell myself to take it nice and steady for the first session 2. repeat to self in holding bay - "running in, running in 3. first lap, ride round taking it nice and steady, "running in running in" 4. all of a sudden the flag comes out, and i realise at i have probably just done my fastest ever series of laps on the rd. oh, bugger, never mind, it's defo run in now! it is impossible to ride a tuned two stroke half arsed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant802 Posted December 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Some good advice here, my own preference, would be based on what Millemille suggested. My curve ball is regarding the rings, as this seems to be your biggest concern and getting the best sealing from them. Back when I was running F3000 cars we used to send the engines back for refresh every 2000kms, this was part of the lease agreement and not open for discussion. Every refresh saw the entire valve train replaced along with pistons as a matter of course, the shells were inspected and replaced evey other rebuild. But the rings were only inspected and the replaced after every third rebuild, some time they'd go for 4 rebuilds, depending on the oils and warm up procedure used. The reason for this was that the bores were plated ,like I believe you zx6rr is, and as they can't be bored or honed the rings will continue to bed in and produce more power the longer you leave them. Some race engines run soft iron rings which will bed in and produce power very quickly but may only last 1000kms, but since you are running stock rings and havn't touched the bores, why are you replacing them so often? yeh seating the rings properly is my main concern really, like i said earlier, i'd like to avoid the minor blow by i'm getting if possible, i think i'll go for millemilles procedure, it sounds about right to me, wow 3/4 rebuilds before replacing the rings? i think sometimes people do get caught up in replacing everything too soon, like some say, if it ain't broke......etc I had the bores re-honed early last hear, proper cross hatch hone, this time they just needed a very light de-glaze, the 30deg hone marks still really visible, i'd have probably not gone for a re-build, but i holed a piston at Daytona and the motor was full of alloy chunks, practically every bearing surface was marked, including the oil pump rotor which had nicely crush alloy all over it, so i thought best to do a full re-build, valves and all, i tried to start it the other day, but unfortunately its lost its spark, let the fault finding begin! thanks for the reply, good to know. Ant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levo Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 I'd change the plugs prolly assembly lubed to fuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronenige Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Every refresh saw the entire valve train replaced along with pistons as a matter of course, the shells were inspected and replaced evey other rebuild. But the rings were only inspected and the replaced after every third rebuild, some time they'd go for 4 rebuilds, depending on the oils and warm up procedure used. There is a school of thought that says that you deform a ring when you remove it , any thoughts ? , people tend to forget that rings have several purposes , besides sealing they transfer heat away from the piston crown so the benefits of a well run in ring ( ? ) are fairly obvious and probably the reason for the above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccubed Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 did you find any big lumps of blued metal though? LOL I love this forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superdunc Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 There is a school of thought that says that you deform a ring when you remove it , any thoughts ? , people tend to forget that rings have several purposes , besides sealing they transfer heat away from the piston crown so the benefits of a well run in ring ( ? ) are fairly obvious and probably the reason for the above I was told the reason the rings weren't changed was purely for power. I agree there is a danger that you can, and probably will, deform the rings when removing them from the pistons. In the example I gave the engine builder had decided that leaving the rings and bores together as long as posible was the best soloution for power, and as they dynoed each engine after every rebuild, they had the data to back this up. This won't always be the best soloution, and I suspect the nikasil liners were the key factor in this case.s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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