nigel.ted Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 As most of you know i have got a Suzuki RF900 that needs abit of tlc Well its going ok, it runs Carbs stripped and cleaned new plugs all cables lubed and free i fitted the choke cable today and started it up to check it and its on 3 cylinders if you rev it up it pops and farts. took the carbs off again and cleaned them whilst engine running pull off plug leads one by one and No 3 makes no difference to the running put a spare plug in the lead and it has a weak spark. Is it the coil or still a fuel problem Help nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs.ted Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 FFS i am sitting here thinking how many times do you have to try before you know its not worth it until we have the bit we have just ordered PLEASE HELP ME !!!!!! lol K xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 How many coils does it have? I'd guess just the 2 if it's anything like my srad, in which case, no, it's not your coils or you'd only be running on 2 cylinders. If it's got 4 coils, swap 'em like he said. Are the plugs wet? Do you have a can of easy start? If you do, squirt it into the cylinder and see if it fires. If it does, then it's a fuelling issue, if not, then it's electrical or perhaps compression. To temporarily get the compression up on the iffy cylinder, bosh a spoonfull of oil down the plug hole into the bore, turn it over without the plug in for a couple of seconds, then put the plug back in and go from there. However, my own personal bet is that you've got a blocked pilot jet on that cylinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel.ted Posted May 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Looks like fuel its now moved to No4 had the carbs apart again could be they needs balancing because i had to split them from each other ive tried to set them without much luck all jets are clear its just all over the place nothing on 3&4 now carb strip again tomorrow nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Do you have a compressor or know somebody who does? Soak everything you can in cleaner, then give it a blast of 90 psi. Check thinks like pilot screws and float heights. Then, finally, when it doesn't do a fucking thing, swear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel.ted Posted May 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Do you have a compressor or know somebody who does? Soak everything you can in cleaner, then give it a blast of 90 psi. Check thinks like pilot screws and float heights. Then, finally, when it doesn't do a fucking thing, swear. got fuck all at home working on a upturned dustbin!!!! mate has a shop done the brakes already might take them off and sort them there lots of swearing already done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levo Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 Sounds like the same on my fzr ..........mixture screws 1.Wind #1 in and count the turns write it down,repeat for all four carbs 2. if they are say #1 2 1/2 turns ,#2 3 turns ,#3 4 turns ans #4 3 turns take the happyish medium and set them all to 2 1/2 turns 3. try the carbs again........they may sound a bit rough but should clear. This advise was Morepowers and it worked for me............. And if they are off again another clean won't hurt.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel.ted Posted May 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 Sounds like the same on my fzr ..........mixture screws 1.Wind #1 in and count the turns write it down,repeat for all four carbs 2. if they are say #1 2 1/2 turns ,#2 3 turns ,#3 4 turns ans #4 3 turns take the happyish medium and set them all to 2 1/2 turns 3. try the carbs again........they may sound a bit rough but should clear. This advise was Morepowers and it worked for me............. And if they are off again another clean won't hurt.................. done that last thing yesterday Danny didnt run it as it was too dark so see!! will check in a bit Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel.ted Posted May 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 Looks like the carbs are way out of sync cant get the tickover down below 3k so checking for air leaks and such Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 Get yourself a couple of drill bits, both the same size, about 1.5mm or so. Flap a bit of gaffer on the end so they don't fall in, then put them into the carbs. Adjust them so you can pull them out simultaneously with just a tiny bit of resistance. Then, once they're all sync'd up, close the 1.5mm gap with the idle adjuster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blow_away Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 Try some Silkolene Pro FST in the fuel as well. It always seems to help carbs that have recently been cleaned. Once you've got the bike running, start it up as often as you can to keep the fresh fuel pumping through. Or take the bike for a good long blast. If it has a fuel tap, switch it off whilst the bike is running and let the bike tick over until the float bowls are dry. The trouble with cleaning carbs is that sometimes you are just moving the dirt into new areas Stick at it Nige. I think my mate Jim is coming to Anglesey, should I get him to pack the carb balancers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel.ted Posted May 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 Try some Silkolene Pro FST in the fuel as well. It always seems to help carbs that have recently been cleaned. Once you've got the bike running, start it up as often as you can to keep the fresh fuel pumping through. Or take the bike for a good long blast. If it has a fuel tap, switch it off whilst the bike is running and let the bike tick over until the float bowls are dry. The trouble with cleaning carbs is that sometimes you are just moving the dirt into new areas Stick at it Nige. I think my mate Jim is coming to Anglesey, should I get him to pack the carb balancers? Bit ahead of me there Al ;) bike has no brakes fitted or chain or tyres, have a airline coming tomorrow to blast air through them though i done what Loz said and its better but have to keep puting the tank on to refill,mate has a small tank and guages so will use them in the week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blow_away Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Nige, you can make up a temporary dummy tank out of an old pop bottle. I've used a Robinsons squash bottle as they are fairly strong. First drink the pop, burp a few times and have a pee. second, wash the bottle out third, get a short length of hose to fit onto the carb fourth, get a suitable hose clip fifth, drill a hole in the top of the pop bottle cap, make it slightly smaller than the OD of the hose sixth, stuff the hose through the hole and fasten the clip inside on the cap seventh, put some petrol in the bottle eighth, screw the cap on and away you go What size tyres do you need? I'll have a sort through my pile of shite tyres, other wise known as valuable pre worn scrubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel.ted Posted May 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 Right carbs now balanced ticks over nice now But it seems to flood/die when revved up to 8k then produces black smoke till it clears i've checked the mixture and all set the same so have i missed something obvious or more problems to solve???? Thanks nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 But it seems to flood/die when revved up to 8k then produces black smoke till it clears i've checked the mixture and all set the same It's not going to help solve your problem directly but your mixture screws only do anything at idle or when you've a closed throttle. What colour's the smoke? Dark tends to mean oil's being burnt, white is more likely coolant/head gasket. of course, there's a load of other thing it could be too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel.ted Posted May 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 It's not going to help solve your problem directly but your mixture screws only do anything at idle or when you've a closed throttle. What colour's the smoke? Dark tends to mean oil's being burnt, white is more likely coolant/head gasket. of course, there's a load of other thing it could be too... deffo unburnt fuel Thinks...........ahhhh on stripping the carbs earlier the main jet holders have a O ring to seal them and they are in poor condition(1 is split for sure) IIRC read somewhere that it floods the engine when it goes onto main jets(yes)? Will take the carbs apart again sunday and get new O rings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blow_away Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 New O rings on the mains should definitely help. While you are at it, check the o rings on the pilot air screws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudgetBoy Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 deffo unburnt fuel Thinks...........ahhhh on stripping the carbs earlier the main jet holders have a O ring to seal them and they are in poor condition(1 is split for sure) IIRC read somewhere that it floods the engine when it goes onto main jets(yes)? Will take the carbs apart again sunday and get new O rings If the bike is Stalling at over 8k then i would say you have an overfueling problem, OR it could also be air leaks. If the bike is just getting fuel or more fuel than air it will stall. Note:- Use separate fuel supply and see if it runs ok.. A blocked tank breather/filter will cause also it to run bad. 1.) As you have had the carb's apart did you check the float heights? If these are wrong it will cause under/over-fueling. measure them to make sure they are at spec.Also visually check the needle valves on the floats.They should be smooth with no dips.Visually inspect/replace worn parts. 2.) Deffo replace the naffed o rings as that wont help 3.) Id set the mixture screws (if you touched them) at 2.0 - 2.5 tuns out.Should be enough. 4.) Use the airline to blast ALL airways,you will be susprised where the crap can end up.Make sure main jets are all clean. 5.) Check all of your air intake lines for leaks. You can spray easy start on the tubes (where you cannot visually check) and if the engine revs rise you have a leak.if nothing happens you're ok. be careful though, don't go soaking the engine with it or you might have a fire.(hot exhaust pipes,sparks) 6.) make sure you have the airfilter on as not having one will alter the fuel/air mix.Will give you a duff reading.It will draw in too much air..and it will splutter. 7.) While carbs are off being cleaned, check spark plug gaps and condition, you are looking for a brown,tan colour on the plugs.give them a clean while you are at it. 8.) If it were me i would do a compression check while the plugs are out to see what state the engine is in.Do a dry & wet test and note the figures.This will tell you what state the rings/engine is in..If you don't have enough compression then it wont run properly.You might be getting lots of fuel in a cylinder but there not the compression there,if that is the case the unwanted fuel will either be ignited on the next stoke (black smoke) or end up in your engine oil.Not good. I only say this as you might muck about with the carbs when it might be the engine.. Do all the carb stuff ,but while they are off do the other stuff.You might as well as its not going to hurt is it.. Hope this helps anyhow mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel.ted Posted May 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 Cheers for that BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel.ted Posted May 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 Well checked jet and needle settings and they are standard. replaced the O rings but they are a tad too big/thick so dont let the jet holder seat all the way in but it has made it a little better, it still splutters but dont die now Unfortunately i haven't got a airline but i am going to take them apart at mates shop this weekend. He has all the gear. Plugs are black so rich running ,gaps ok so still think it over fuelling revs nice from tickover just when around 7k seems to cough/splutter, roll the throttle off and its fine. tried with tank off, same Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudgetBoy Posted May 8, 2011 Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 Well checked jet and needle settings and they are standard. replaced the O rings but they are a tad too big/thick so dont let the jet holder seat all the way in but it has made it a little better, it still splutters but dont die now Unfortunately i haven't got a airline but i am going to take them apart at mates shop this weekend. He has all the gear. Plugs are black so rich running ,gaps ok so still think it over fuelling revs nice from tickover just when around 7k seems to cough/splutter, roll the throttle off and its fine. tried with tank off, same Nigel Yep it does sounds like your carb's then mate. you could try this old trick to unblock and crud.. Start the bike as normal with the air filter box off. Then you want to rev the bike to 5-8 k , but put your hand over each carb air intake port to restrict the air flow as you do it.It should not die (might splutter) while you are at high revs and might dislodge and crud. If it dies straight away then it would be that carb that is faulty.Sometimes it work sometimes it dont.But worth a try IMO. Take them over to your mates and give them a good clean.. BTW out of interest,, did you check for a good spark from all 4 plugs? A weak spark will do this as the bike is under more load.If there is a breakdown in your spark (weak) it wont/cannot ignite the fuel and will also cause the same problem.You want a nice BLUE spark,, if its yellow its weak. If you are keeping the bike why not bung 4 new ones in it to eliminate this..Wont do your bike any harm either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel.ted Posted May 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 New plugs fitted and gapped right and good spark Tried the cover the carb trick but think i need to get compressed air through them as its been stood outside for 2 years in a poor state checked all the jets and put nearly a full can of carb cleaner through all airways and any holes i could see just seem to flood on mains, fitting new O rings albeit too big seemed better but the main holder is nowhere all the way in so not fully seated Thanks BB much appreciated Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudgetBoy Posted May 8, 2011 Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 New plugs fitted and gapped right and good spark Tried the cover the carb trick but think i need to get compressed air through them as its been stood outside for 2 years in a poor state checked all the jets and put nearly a full can of carb cleaner through all airways and any holes i could see just seem to flood on mains, fitting new O rings albeit too big seemed better but the main holder is nowhere all the way in so not fully seated Thanks BB much appreciated Nigel No probs mate. But yeah if its been stood with fuel in it then no doubt the carbs are gummed up. Get these clean and reassemble and see how it goes from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudgetBoy Posted May 8, 2011 Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 Here you go mate.Exploded view of the carbs for you.(are these yours?) Check ALL the rubber O rings and gaskets as these will perish over time. (46,27,32 are some) There are 4 o rings in the repair kit and 2 gaskets plus a needle valve.But just check them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel.ted Posted May 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2011 Big thanks to Laminator today for letting me strip the carbs and use his tools/ airline today tickover is nice and now sounds alot better,still not right will rev above 7k now but still dont like more than half throttle but run it out of fuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted May 15, 2011 Report Share Posted May 15, 2011 Did he have any carb balancing kit and if so, did you use it? Also, are the float heights set up ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laminator Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 No worries Nige, glad it made a difference. Shame it didn't fix it completely though. Did he have any carb balancing kit and if so, did you use it? Also, are the float heights set up ok? We set the float heights according to the workshop manual (6.9mm +/- 1mm). At first we were not sure where to measure from, but then found the PDF which had a little picture. I've got a carbtune but we didn't balance the carbs as nigel.ted had already set them, and we only had the carbs here at the workshop. Don't forget if you want to borrow the Carbtune just let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel.ted Posted May 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 After much help from Bugetboy it was diagnosed as a fooked air filter So its all good now Thanks to Jamie for his knowledge Andy (laminator) for his workshoppery and tools :lol: Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levo Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 Great news .......Those carbs prolly needed the deep clean tho' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel.ted Posted May 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 Great news .......Those carbs prolly needed the deep clean tho' Yeah they did ,alot more crap came out of them compressed air FTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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