LLCOOLJ Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Hi All, I am facing a problem in getting a good pressure in the brakes. Basically, I have a ZX6R G1 (98) , I have upgraded the calipers to a set of Nissins (4pots) combined with a ZX6R 05 Radial master cylinder and some HEL braided hose’s. Now, while I’m bleeding them I get some pressure back but not an awful lot, I have Pazzo levers on the bike and its on the 6th setting (largest span possible) and its just right. I’m thinking this ain’t gonna be enough, as I’m sure I will experience brake fade and would need to adjust the span out more. I have checked when bleeding Caliper/MC for bubbles and I can’t see any? Any ideas? Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcard996 Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 I had a similar problem with my RR-5 Fireblade - turned out there was a bleed bolt on the master cylinder as well as the calipers - Is there one and have you checked it? Just a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLCOOLJ Posted January 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 I had a similar problem with my RR-5 Fireblade - turned out there was a bleed bolt on the master cylinder as well as the calipers - Is there one and have you checked it? Just a thought Yeah, it has a bleed nipple on the MC, bleed that till no bubbles came out. Begining to wonder if i need to get some suction (somthing like a Mityvac) in the system for the inital bleed stage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilchicken0 Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 When I bled in the radial masters on my bikes I bled the top then the calipers then the master and calipers again. I left them over night and then had another little bleed of them the next night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurninman Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Hi All, I am facing a problem in getting a good pressure in the brakes. Basically, I have a ZX6R G1 (98) , I have upgraded the calipers to a set of Nissins (4pots) combined with a ZX6R 05 Radial master cylinder and some HEL braided hose’s. Now, while I’m bleeding them I get some pressure back but not an awful lot, I have Pazzo levers on the bike and its on the 6th setting (largest span possible) and its just right. I’m thinking this ain’t gonna be enough, as I’m sure I will experience brake fade and would need to adjust the span out more. I have checked when bleeding Caliper/MC for bubbles and I can’t see any? Any ideas? Cheers! Perseverance - Nissin 4 pots aren't particularly bad to bleed, certainly not as bad as the 6 pot Tokicos. Like the man said, bleed at the MC, then calipers, then MC until you get good lever pressure. Any idea what bore the master cylinder is ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLCOOLJ Posted January 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Perseverance - Nissin 4 pots aren't particularly bad to bleed, certainly not as bad as the 6 pot Tokicos. Like the man said, bleed at the MC, then calipers, then MC until you get good lever pressure. Any idea what bore the master cylinder is ? Yeah, i try that method again and see the results. TBH i had done that alrdy :-) Not sure what bore the MC is, its a std Ninja ZX6R 2005 MC.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLCOOLJ Posted January 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Yeah, i try that method again and see the results. TBH i had done that alrdy :-) Not sure what bore the MC is, its a std Ninja ZX6R 2005 MC.... Just had a ganders the orig MC bore is 5/8 and the new one is 16mm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Take 1 of the calipers off, open the bleed nipple a little with a pipe attached and some fluid already in it (like you'd have when you're bleeding them). Push the pistons in fully then close the nipple. Refit the caliper, do the other one too, then head up to the master cylinder. Take this off the bar and hold it flat, or better still, so the nipple there is at the highest point. Bleed that end too. With a bit of luck, that should be you sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLCOOLJ Posted January 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Take 1 of the calipers off, open the bleed nipple a little with a pipe attached and some fluid already in it (like you'd have when you're bleeding them). Push the pistons in fully then close the nipple. Refit the caliper, do the other one too, then head up to the master cylinder. Take this off the bar and hold it flat, or better still, so the nipple there is at the highest point. Bleed that end too. With a bit of luck, that should be you sorted. Cheers Lorenzo! Will try this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurninman Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Just had a ganders the orig MC bore is 5/8 and the new one is 16mm... Ah - same size (near enough), then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budda Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Always bleed with the pistons fully in, then adjust fluid level after. I had one of those zx6r radial MC's on my track zx10r and never got fully hard (fnarr fnarr) sold it on and got a brembo, problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwakbiker Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 You tried the old tying the lever back to the bar overnight trick to force any air up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLCOOLJ Posted January 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Yeah, tried the old trick tie the lever back, it goes hard when taken off, but after a few pumps it sort of fades. Deffo would love a brembo but i thought i try a std radial 1st :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_louis Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 When i fitted the thumb brake to my zx10r i couldn't get preasure for ages, in the end i tried bleeding from the banjo rather then the nipple, not a full on bleed but just a few pumps of the lever then crack the banjo slightly ... loads of air came out. I got better feel straight away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 If you end up thinking that the master cylinder is the issue, have a mooch about for one off an R1, the model that was about for a couple of years before the wobbley crank one. This is a (cheapo) brembo one, it's at a slight angle so it won't foul the clocks on bikes not meant to be having radial m/c's and frankly, they're pretty ferkin nice in terms of firmness/feel compromise. In fact, I've always thought that Yamahas have always had really good brakes, I like 'em. The one on the later bikes look exactly the same but have a different bore as the R1 got 6 pots, so avoid them (unless you're on 6 pot calipers). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLCOOLJ Posted January 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 When i fitted the thumb brake to my zx10r i couldn't get preasure for ages, in the end i tried bleeding from the banjo rather then the nipple, not a full on bleed but just a few pumps of the lever then crack the banjo slightly ... loads of air came out. I got better feel straight away. Will deffo try that too! Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLCOOLJ Posted January 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 If you end up thinking that the master cylinder is the issue, have a mooch about for one off an R1, the model that was about for a couple of years before the wobbley crank one. This is a (cheapo) brembo one, it's at a slight angle so it won't foul the clocks on bikes not meant to be having radial m/c's and frankly, they're pretty ferkin nice in terms of firmness/feel compromise. In fact, I've always thought that Yamahas have always had really good brakes, I like 'em. The one on the later bikes look exactly the same but have a different bore as the R1 got 6 pots, so avoid them (unless you're on 6 pot calipers). Yeah, a lot of peps recommend the Yams MC, even the 08 R6 have the brembo MC's. If i do manage to get the latest R1 MC i will stick my 6 pots back on:-) Lets see if i manage to sort it on sat :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudgetBoy Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 If you have tied the lever back overnight as you say and that did not work then you must have air in the system. I done a thread on bleeding brakes. Bleeding brakes You only need tiny air bubbles mate and it will go spongy. Just make sure the master cylinder is full all the time, and make sure all banjos are tight, so as not to allow air in the system. i dont think you have this as you say the lever did go hard (ooo err) Tap the master cylinder and the pipes going to the caliper and then tap caliper as well.Tap calipers while bleeding as well,it will cause the air to move while the fluid is coming out. Then try bleeding them into a jar as the thread says and then leave the pipe in the fluid ,but tie lever back and leave it for about 6-12 hours. If you can do both calipers at the same time then great. Oh BTW a tip ,,when you tie the lever back all night i normally leave the master cylinder lid off so air can come easier out that way.. If you think about it when the lid is on air goes into the MC and the pressure builds, no more air can get out.You take tie of brake lever and you have pressure, you then pump it a few times and draw the air back into the system thats still stuck in the pipes. Air rises. Hope that helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLCOOLJ Posted January 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 If you have tied the lever back overnight as you say and that did not work then you must have air in the system. I done a thread on bleeding brakes. Bleeding brakes You only need tiny air bubbles mate and it will go spongy. Just make sure the master cylinder is full all the time, and make sure all banjos are tight, so as not to allow air in the system. i dont think you have this as you say the lever did go hard (ooo err) Tap the master cylinder and the pipes going to the caliper and then tap caliper as well.Tap calipers while bleeding as well,it will cause the air to move while the fluid is coming out. Then try bleeding them into a jar as the thread says and then leave the pipe in the fluid ,but tie lever back and leave it for about 6-12 hours. If you can do both calipers at the same time then great. Oh BTW a tip ,,when you tie the lever back all night i normally leave the master cylinder lid off so air can come easier out that way.. If you think about it when the lid is on air goes into the MC and the pressure builds, no more air can get out.You take tie of brake lever and you have pressure, you then pump it a few times and draw the air back into the system thats still stuck in the pipes. Air rises. Cheers Buddy! Was bleeding with that method but i didn't take the lid off when the lever was tied back, will do this on the w/e. Gonna push all the pistons back in, Bleed the whole system again, tap all the calipers, pipes, MC and bleed again, then tie the lever back with the lid off and see, i'm hoping this will sort it :-) Hope that helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudgetBoy Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 No probs, if that dont work let me know.. There are a few other things you can try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 If you have tied the lever back overnight as you say and that did not work then you must have air in the system. Hope that helps That will do sweet FA! When you pull the lever in, the master cylinder closes off it's supply from the reservior. If you watch the level in the reservoir when you let the lever out while bleeding, it will drop. It doesn't drop when you pull the lever in. EDIT: Dam, you got in before me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Bleed the m/c first. Rotate it on the bars to make the bleed nipple the highest point. Do this. Or even, if it's awkward, take the master cylinder off or the bar off (easier with the bar off, gives you something to squeeze against, but not always practical) so that you're certain that the bleed nipple is the highest bit. If for whatever reason this isn't practical, then the banjo on the master cylinder is often the highest part, so bleed from there if you can't get the nipple highest. Crack the banjo only a fraction of a turn while you've got a slight bit of pressure on the lever and tighten it up before you've run out of lever travel, or, if you're really swish, get a banjo with a bleed nipple in it. Basically, if you can get the lever firm by giving it 3 or 4 pumps you're nearly there but you've got a bit more trapped somewhere: Air compresses, you pumping is compressing the air and hence you can get it firm quite breifly, but it'll soon decompress and you're back to a squidgey lever again. You've only got a finite number of places for the air to stay; the master cylinder and 2 calipers, the trick is to work out where the air is trapped and get it out. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurninman Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 I concur with the previous couple of replies If it's spongy, then you either have air in the system or a fluid leak - It's not rocket science You can't miraculously get pressure just by tying the brake lever back overnight, unless you have quantum brake fluid - and I've never seen that for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLCOOLJ Posted January 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Thanks for all the advice guys! Will no doubt probably try everything to get this to work! Will keep you posted what works :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLCOOLJ Posted January 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Ok, had another go this morning, this time with a help of my mate it made the bleeding easier! Took of calipers pushed the pistons back, tapped the calipers, MC and lines to loosen any air bubbles, bled the MC and calipers didn't see too many bubbles only abt 1 from the MC and 1 from the caliper. Result - Didn't feel much difference. While standing around drinking tea and eaiting biscuits i noticed the master cyclinder nipple looked a bit oily from the brake fluid, so i gave it a good clean, 1 cup of tea later the oily patch appeared, bingo the nipple thread was leaking. Whipped that off and wrapped some plumbing tape around the thread and back on it went. Now its much better! So time to put it on track ASAP and see how the brakes work! Thanks for all your input guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwakbiker Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Glad its sorted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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