porter_jamie Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 the spindles I made are 6alv4 ,which has roughly the same tensile strength as stainless. Its wierd stuff to machine, it turned ok but it really really didn't like drilling why would the 8% elongation bother you ? I measured the weight of the spindles and both of the ti ones weigh roughly the same as one made out of stainless cos it doesnt fail with much warning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennis Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 Wikipedia specific strength. Yep, raw aluminium but not alloyed and heat treated. The question is though if the OP cant machine the feck out of his Ti bar to reduce all of its excess weight he may as well use a 7001 T5 alloy which will be as strong/stronger than the steel, lighter than a solid bar of Ti and wont corrode itself together. Anyway untill your running a 750Gram Ion battery over your 4kilo OE the relative weight of a non spinning component is of little consiquence really is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul8899 Posted December 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 but I'll have to pay for that grade of ally ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedy sie Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 the xro engines run berridium vavle seets,is this harder then the standered valave seet?and is it safe to runn onver the replacment time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul8899 Posted December 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 A 7075T6 axle that has been machined to be about 25% thicker than a steel axle then keronite coated and then soaked in a liquid teflon bath and is subject to a regular inspection regime and thrown in the bin at the first sign of corrosion or cracking would be better, IMO, than a Ti axle. looks like its another addition to the scrap pile then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superdunc Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 Really? But it's an alloy not a matrix composite....... Not according to this http://www.berylliumproducts.com/WhyBeryllium.aspx. It doesn't conform to FIM regs on three counts 1) It's not Aluminium 2) when combined with Aluminium it is a MMC not an alloy 3) it is too stiff as defined by FIM regs. Have a look around that website and check out the costs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcaztls Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 All good. @ Marc, TiN coating is used on all sorts of materials, from fork stansions to cheapy drill bits, It is not a particularly exspensive surface treatment, and doesn't imply the base material is Titanium. Titanium its self doesn't need surface treatment for corosion, but where sliding friction is present, such as on screw threads it does suffer badly from gauling, so it is common on high end applications to silver plate the areas that could suffer. I suspect the spindles on the M1 are high tensile steel that have been TiN coated for corrosion resistance and because of it's low friction properties when going through bearing seals. And while I'm being a picky twat, the caliper on Crutchlows R1 Mentioned in last months excellent artical aren't Nickel Cadmium as suggested by Matt, They will be 2014 Aluminium or similar* which has been Nickel plated. This has become common on high end aluminium brake and clutch components in the last few years rather than hard anodising, why this is so I'm not sure, possible for heat transfer characteristics, or better resistance to brake dust. * I know Alcoa have developed alloys specifically for brake calipers in the last few years. I was only going on what I was told by the race engineer. He was very proud of them being 'left overs' from the M1 and his exact words were "Titanium and very light". The rules not being stuck to in motorsport? I'll not hear of it.... I asked about the calipers specifically, it was me who thought they were NiCad as I knew about the Beryllium ones not being used. The engineer asked the chassis guy who said he didn't know for sure but thought they were LIKELY to be NiCad. We can only go on what we're told by the guys who presumably should know better than most. Just because they are coated in Ti Nitride doesn't mean they are titanium. Off the top of my head I'd suggest they could be coated to reduce galling or seizure problems and to help speed wheel changes. Again, only going on what I was told. The threads looked and felt incredibly sharp, as most Ti stuff appears in my limited experience. Would other types of steel appear the same? And I have a friend who runs his own home brewed ally spindles, all three. And ally cam cap bolts. Has done for years with no problems that I know of. Not saying I would, just saying t'is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superdunc Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 That product is an MMC, but there's plenty of aluminium beryllium alloys available. An MMC and an alloy are not the same thing. That was my point about MMCs and alloys not being the same. I couldn't find any aluminium beryllium alloys after a quick google, not the be all and end all I know. Changing the subject again, Do you remember an artical in the early 90's in MBUK about a company called Beyond Beryllium, who were making beryllium MTB frames. I don't think they sold many.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uglymark Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 Millemille, just done a quick google and it appears Beryllium alloys are clased as MMCs which are speciffically banned in the FIM regs, It also seems they are very stiff, so fall foul of that regulation as well. Tennis, on a formula one car outside of the engine, radiators, and gearbox, there are very few aluminium parts. There will be a few magnesium parts, but everything else is Carbon or Titanium. Titanium has much better strenght to weight ratios, and more importantly, stiffness to weight ratios than any alloy. They are even making gearbox casings out of titanium sheet. Edited for even worse spooling than usual. most of the gearboxes in f1 are now carbon , i know as ive built a few Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossm Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 And here's the link to Yoyo selling Ti spindles in case anyone wants one. http://www.yoyodyneti.com/Category.aspx?CategoryID=2696 Or here http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DUCATI-848-1098-1198...68#ht_500wt_765 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcaztls Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 Or here http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DUCATI-848-1098-1198...68#ht_500wt_765 Uncoated though? I'm not sure if I'd be happy using that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superdunc Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 most of the gearboxes in f1 are now carbon , i know as ive built a few Nice. Arn't they based around titanium skeleton for the bearing housings and suspension pickups? or os that now old tech? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sennidott Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 what worries me is people using ti bolts to hold calipers on. Porter_jamie and Millemille, what would you recommend? The bike manufacturers original caliper bolts? What about the caliper bolts supplied by the likes of Poggipolini or Probolt? Every bolt on my SRAD, with the exception of the wheel and swingarm spindles has been replaced with ti bolts. Now you've got me worried... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedy sie Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 dont panic innes,shakey's bike had all titanium on it and it was thrashed to death as well as walkers and most of the xro bikes,...the forks came out of an ex endurance gsxr and say no more they look like new and have titanium inserts for the fork bottoms and these have seen some action!!,if you like it then have it,who on here is going to put a titanum spindle to its limet in use?...yes you can fuck them up with over tightening and miss use,but well looked after and inspected regulaery sould be no problem,the newer gsxr have titnium valves so if the factory can put thses in a raod bike ,there is no problem there.there is too much doom and gloom an a metal that is a bit over indulgaed....have you ever heard of some one have a snaped caliper bolt under hard breaking?...a front wheel spindle shapping?...linkage braking its pin?... i love titanium and to have a spindle snap and spit me off the bike is millions to one! so there is my view on it. oh and now lets have a go at magnesium!!! how meny times have i heard that it is not safe to use after some years???go and tell that to the royal air force....... all this imput on exotic materials and all is rather upsetting,these exotic material are wot race bikes are about......yes a lot had been baned ,.but it was used and sould be held in credit that it was used,love the stuff and respect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porter_jamie Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 one would assume if a professional outfit like probolt are selling them as brake caliper bolts then they should be ok. me, i prefer to see OEM bolts. if one looks worn or gets damaged you just fit another. cheap and easily replaceable. the data says gr5 ti has the same strength more or less as a hi tensile bolt. gr2 ti is only about 1/3 as strong. make sure the bolt is the correct grade. i don't know how you tell the grades apart though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porter_jamie Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 http://www.tastynuts.com/themes/probolt/im...ecification.pdf probolt stuff looks to be the real deal. 316 stainless isnt very strong is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sennidott Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 http://www.tastynuts.com/themes/probolt/im...ecification.pdf probolt stuff looks to be the real deal. 316 stainless isnt very strong is it. Thanks for the replies. Yes, I've read all the 'blurb' and I'm quite prepared to believe it but when someone with the experience of yourself or Millemille has concerns I tend to sit up and take notice. Simon, I think you should give me all those factory Suzuki ti bolts, just to check them over you understand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedy sie Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 ill wip them off and bag them up and send them up to you asap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashgordon69 Posted December 9, 2010 Report Share Posted December 9, 2010 I just made them solid and I was thinking that it should be strong enough, I just thought I'd try and be flash by drilling the middles out ( right up until it turned out to be difficult ). where would I be able to get the anti seize paste from ? Hello mate, all you need is copperslip from a motor factors Ive got stacks of Ti and it works fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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