Houston we have a problem...

[MonkeyJim]

good to hear you finally got it running again, what happened with the bike shop ?

This matter is still under discussion with the garage

Bloody Hell Jim, you don't do things by half ! Two engine swaps ??

Good to read its running again

Thanks. yeah well I could have done without the hassle of doing it twice, but it was a lot quicker the second time around.

whilst I'd much rather not had to have done it [twice] I have learnt a lot and taking an engine out again wouldn't hold any fear for me.

rode the R1 to work this morning, first test ride and everything seems to be ok so far

only did about 25 miles but it hasn't shat oil/coolant everywhere or burst into flames.... yet [better go and check!]

took it for an MOT on the way in, as the old one expired just after the engine packed in.

The fucking jobsworth arsehole failed it.... on the bloody numberplate. Apparently it's a fraction too small / digits 0.0000001mm undersized or some such bollocks.

This is the same plate that has been on it for the last 7 years or so, since I've owned it. never had a problem with it before, not even a mention.

He wouldn't even give me an advisory for it, the fucking Gent

So now I've got to find the original plate - no idea where it is, or even if I still have it and take it for a re-test.

or... take it to my usual place where he doesn't care if it has a number plate or not

[Crooked]

took it for an MOT on the way in, as the old one expired just after the engine packed in.

The fucking jobsworth arsehole failed it.... on the bloody numberplate. Apparently it's a fraction too small / digits 0.0000001mm undersized or some such bollocks.

This is the same plate that has been on it for the last 7 years or so, since I've owned it. never had a problem with it before, not even a mention.

He wouldn't even give me an advisory for it, the fucking Gent

So now I've got to find the original plate - no idea where it is, or even if I still have it and take it for a re-test.

or... take it to my usual place where he doesn't care if it has a number plate or not

[VeeTeeArr]

The fucking jobsworth arsehole failed it.... on the bloody numberplate. Apparently it's a fraction too small / digits 0.0000001mm undersized or some such bollocks.

Did you get a 30sec. time penalty

well done with the engine swaps

[MonkeyJim]

Did you get a 30sec. time penalty

well done with the engine swaps

Yesterday was a mixture of highs and lows.

The low point was turning up to get the bike re-MOT'd, having spent an hour the previous evening searching the garage to eventually find the mahoosive original number plate.

Nazi MOT inspector: 'I can't re-test your bike'

Me: 'FFS why not? you said yesterday all I needed to do was bring the bike back with the original number plate, which I have done'

Nazi: 'you've taken the tape off the lights'

Me: 'yes, you saw them yesterday all taped up, you only failed it on the numberplate, didn't you?'

Nazi: 'yes, but the bike is now not presented in the same condition as it was yesterday'

Me: '[sighs] I haven't got any tape with me, do you have any I could use, please?

Nazi: 'No'

Me: 'You mean to tell me you don't have a roll of insulating tape I can borrow? you're a garage'

Nazi: 'No'

Me: 'you really are being extremely unhelpful. Is there anywhere I can get some tape?'

Nazi: 'I don't know'

I am not a violent man but I can understand why people sometimes do just go off the rails. I had to take a deep breath and walk away, otherwise I was going to lose it and go for him.

Instead I told him I would bring the bike back later when I'd got some tape. What. a. wanker.

The high.

Went to work on the bike. Had to go between two sites I cover, over near Heathrow there's a stretch of road that runs by one of the big resevoirs. Overtook a couple of cars and found the road was completely clear in both directions.

Luckily it's a section of private road so I opened the taps fully on the new engine for the first time.

FUCK

ME

It was only a top gear roll-on but by the sweet Baby J it didn't half shift. Got up to about 10,000rpm in 6th before having to throttle off.

Feels faster than my old engine. Definitely not as turbine-like smooth, it just feels a bit different - rougher and slightly harsher, maybe.

It didn't blow up or burst into flames, which was a definite bonus. Will have to see how a proper work out on track goes on Saturday.

Got to work an popped into the stores, asked for some insulating tape and they gave me a half roll that was going spare. Went back to Nazi MOT on way home and got certificate.

I was 10 minutes early so right in front of him I put the old plate back on and taped up the lights. When he gave me the cetificate, I didn't say thank you, I just took it. He asked me to move my bike as a car was waiting for an MOT. I said no, and took my time removing the tape on the lights and swapping the number plate back while I kept him waiting. GENT.

[heds954]

Jobsworths, aren't they just great...

...NOT!

Fortunately my local MOT centre is a little more relaxed than most and recently I'd forgotten how relaxed. It does help that him and his lad are both bikers so he does have a grasp on reality. For example, I took my cbr6rr7 for its first MOT the other month and fretted about swapping over my Akra for the standard can and plumped for just banging in the baffle loosely to make it across town for the test. When I got there he did the usual visual checks, checked the lights etc and started it up. "Sounds good" he said as he blipped the throttle, "Er, I er made sure the baffle is in" I stammered, "I wouldn't worry" he said "It's got an E mark on it that's all that matters", "But don't you check if it's too noisy?", "Nah, who am I to say if it's too noisy. You could come in here with the baffle in and then get round the corner and take it out, but what you do between me testing it and you riding it has nothing to do with me as long as it's ship shape whilst I'm looking at it, which it is".

I like him, he talks sense

Anywho, glad the plan's coming together

[IforB]

Jeez, what an utter twat of an MOT tester. At my local place if there is any kind of problem that can be fixed quickly they go off for a quick smoke after handing you whatever you need. If it's going to take longer than a couple of minutes to fix, then they fail it (to stop the computer timing out) and then show you where the tools are and how to fix it. Go off for a couple of ciggies and then retest it.

They have no interest in the volume of noise coming out of the cans, they just don't want to see "not for road use" stamped on the side. If it hasn't got that, then they completely ignore it.

I've been following this from the beginning. I do hope the garage are paying for that new engine.

[MonkeyJim]

Jeez, what an utter twat of an MOT tester. At my local place if there is any kind of problem that can be fixed quickly they go off for a quick smoke after handing you whatever you need. If it's going to take longer than a couple of minutes to fix, then they fail it (to stop the computer timing out) and then show you where the tools are and how to fix it. Go off for a couple of ciggies and then retest it.

They have no interest in the volume of noise coming out of the cans, they just don't want to see "not for road use" stamped on the side. If it hasn't got that, then they completely ignore it.

I've been following this from the beginning. I do hope the garage are paying for that new engine.

in all my life I think he takes the No.1 spot for being the most rude and unhelpful person I have ever had the misfortune of meeting.

Even though he eventually passed it, he just had to include an advisory for 'noisy exhaust', 'no mirrors' and 'daytime use only - all lights taped up'

where I normally take it, the guy just gives me the certificate, no advisories or anything. Exactly the same bike.

Anyway, to anyone in the local area, avoid MOTTOWN in London Colney like the plague. Wankers

As for the other garage, I am going to have another chat with them now the engine is replaced. I'm trying to do it amicably, before having to go down the route of small claims.

[heds954]

Go to Howards in Skerton. They're spot on....once they have finished grinning at my Akra (which might have mysteriously shiny polishing marks where other Akra end cans have a "Not For Road Use" stamped ), ya can have a natter with carl and find out which bone he has broken lately on his KTM Supermoto thing Top blokes.

oh, and good spannering skillz Monkey

That's the same fella, just I didn't want to name him just in case he comes under scrutiny himself

[VeeTeeArr]

It was only a top gear roll-on but by the sweet Baby J it didn't half shift. Got up to about 10,000rpm in 6th before having to throttle off.

Feels faster than my old engine. Definitely not as turbine-like smooth, it just feels a bit different - rougher and slightly harsher, maybe.

I wonder if this in anything to do with being run in differently.

Every so often we get thread asking about the best wayto run in an engine. Some saying the traditional low revs, low load method and others recommending the heat cycle method of thrashing the engine and then letting it cold and then thrashing it again and letting it cool.

It's said the that heat cycle method is best because it gives more power, but maybe the traditional method, while not giving so much power, does give the engine internals an easier time when bedding in giving a smoother, longer lasting engine.

[peter30]

jim, is the private road the one by queen mary's reservoir, the one with the hidden camera where it bears round to the right(going away from the airport)?

Well done for getting it back together , we need a Bedford write up, what circuit did you use etc...

[MonkeyJim]

jim, is the private road the one by queen mary's reservoir, the one with the hidden camera where it bears round to the right(going away from the airport)?

Well done for getting it back together , we need a Bedford write up, what circuit did you use etc...

Thankfully not, if there's a hidden camera

close but no ceegar. No, it was the <cough> private road <cough> that runs between the King George VI and Staines resevoirs.

cheers, it's been an interesting experience removing and fitting an engine.... twice.

Engine runs absolutely fine but there is a small niggle with the gearbox, under heavy [track] load it does occasionally 'stutter' in second and third gears. only those two gears and infrequently.

it's like it's popping out of gear slightly and momentarily. Suspect it's worn dogs on 2nd and 3rd, which is a not uncommon problem on R1's. Funnily enough there's an article in this month's PB.

I've spoken to the bloke I bought the engine from & we've done a deal - he's refunded me £125 - I couldn't face taking the engine out [again] and besides I just don't have time to source and fit another engine before Eurothrash 2010 which is first week of July.

I've racked up a good few hundred miles on the new engine, including a trackday* where it got a full work out, and I can live with such a minor gearbox problem... for now.

The gearbox on my original engine was perfectly fine, so inspired by the PB article I'll be swapping the gearbox bits over sometime later this year. After all, the article says 'the worst bits are getting the engine out of the frame, and removing the clutch etc etc]

And I can do those with my eyes closed

*Bedford Autodrome is an excellent track IMHO. It's an MSV circuit primarily geared at cars, it's where Jonathan Palmer has his track training school. It's the second time I've done a bike trackday there, both have very well organised and run, though Luke has a different view [see thread in trackdays] and there is an issue with noise there.

For bikes they use the 'SW' circuit, which is a combination of a number of the various different car circuits.

http://www.clubmsv.com/bike-home/circuits/...-autodrome.aspx

as it's an aerodrome there's a long back straight, circa a mile I think, where you can really give it the berries. The R1 was just getting to the redline in top gear, which was nice.

here's some action from onboard the R1, in inters.

[MonkeyJim]

It's..... *The Thread from the Dead*

Engine runs absolutely fine but there is a small niggle with the gearbox, under heavy [track] load it does occasionally 'stutter' in second and third gears. only those two gears and infrequently.

it's like it's popping out of gear slightly and momentarily. Suspect it's worn dogs on 2nd and 3rd, which is a not uncommon problem on R1's. Funnily enough there's an article in this month's PB.

I've spoken to the bloke I bought the engine from & we've done a deal - he's refunded me £125 - I couldn't face taking the engine out [again] and besides I just don't have time to source and fit another engine before Eurothrash 2010 which is first week of July.

I've racked up a good few hundred miles on the new engine, including a trackday where it got a full work out, and I can live with such a minor gearbox problem... for now.

The gearbox on my original engine was perfectly fine, so inspired by the PB article I'll be swapping the gearbox bits over sometime later this year. After all, the article says 'the worst bits are getting the engine out of the frame, and removing the clutch etc etc

some of you may recall I had a major engine problem earlier in the year, which ended up with me replacing the engine [twice!], however the latest engine suffered from the not uncommon R1 gearbox problem, on 2nd & 3rd gear.

I lived with it at the time, as I needed the bike up and running for a trackday and my annual Euro-jaunt. I ended up doing another euro trip in September so a few thousand hard miles later, here we are. And with Mrs Monkey away at the weekend, and hence some 'man-time' in hand, I thought it's about time I set to tackling the gearbox problem.

to re-cap, the new engine has an intermittent problem on 2nd and 3rd gear, which is not uncommon on the early R1's. Knowing that the gearbox in the original engine was fine, my plan is to swap them over. Though this means splitting the crankcases to access the gearbox.

But as the bike is now off the road for winter, I thought I'd start with that to establish (1) how difficult it is and (2) whether the original engine failure meant the gearbox was still ok

When I was working on the bike swapping the engines before I got totally fed up with scrabbling around on the floor so in the meantime I've picked up a hydraulic version of my Abba stand, which also doubles up very handily as an engine stand...

I started by removing the valve cover to have a look in there, but there doesn't appear to be any obvious visible damage to the camshafts. That said, only a couple of the cam lobes are exposed, the majority are hidden under the cam holders, so the damage may not be visible.

But quite interesting anyway as I've never had a look in here before, and it's quite cool turning the engine over manually by using the timing rotor. Mmmmm engines, brilliant

The observant among you will note the alternator is missing off the end of the crankshaftl; I had been warned this can be a right bugger but the judicious use of BF&I and a mahoosive breaker bar yielded the desired result.

Next off, the sump. Again, never done this before but fairly staightforward. This has to be removed to provide access to the oil/water pump, which has to be removed before the crankcases can be split.

for anyone interested [or still awake at this point] the brass cylinder standing up on the LHS of the sump is the oil level sensor

On checking the sump I discovered there's quite a lot of swarf in there. As I've never looked before, I don't know if this is normal or not, but I suspect the latter. Most of the swarf is a kind of copper colour, I'm guessing it might be the main crank bearing shells? we shall see...

Next up is to remove the oil/water pump, and here I hit a problem. Before the pump will come out, the coolant inlet and outlet pipes that run through the sump to the outside of the block, where they then connect to the rubber hoses to the rad etc. The bolt securing the outlet to the front of the engine was heavily corroded... and when I tried to remove it.... it rounded off

<for the sake of the kittens, this line has been censored>

Of course it was in a bloody awkward to access place and though I tried various methods I just couldn't bloody budge it

Thanks to Santa for bringing me a cordless Dremel last christmas. First time I've ever used it. About a minute later with a cutting disc and 10,000rpm and the offending bolt was history and out came the pipe. Onwards we go...

And with that hurdle, err, hurdled, after a bit more work out came the pump, seen here on the left of the pic. What you are looking at is the engine from underneath, that's the underside of the crankshaft and the gearbox is stacked above as you look at it here

The small chain hanging down on the RHS is what drives the pump off the back of the clutch. PS the red stuff is oil, not blood

I ran out of time to go further but I'm now at the stage where the next job is to split the cases, so more to follow in due course.

In the meantime.... a question for you lot:

apart from the stuck bolt, the only other [albeit major] problem is this...

I can't get the bloody clutch basket off. It seems to be stuck on the input shaft and nothing will budge it.

I don't know why it's stuck but suspect it goes back to the original issue when the clutch failed - see start of thread for details. from fitting the new motor, I know the clutch basket should just slide on and off the input shaft. I've already broken a couple of the outer teeth off, trying to free it

So far I've managed to work around it and I'm hoping once I split the crankcases, I'll be able to see more and maybe work out a way of getting it budged. Any suggestions?

Oh and one more question. Are the gearboxes for the 4XV and 5JJ models the same? I think that apart from maybe a slight change of ratio [on 1st gear?] they otherwise should be the same?

[MonkeyJim]

yesterday.... more spannering, and muchos muchos progress

the next step - splitting the crankcases

there's 28 bolts holding the two halves together, of varying length and diameter, some with washers. A cardboard template is needed to hold them in the right place.

They all came out fine and a few taps with the fixing stick and I could lift the lower engine case away, exposing the crankshaft and gearbox

woooooooo-hoooooooooo shamone motherfuckers

Anyway onwards, the gearbox output shaft now comes straight out - it's clamped in place by the two halves of the crankcase.

And with the output shaft removed, out come the rest of the oily bits - the selector drum and forks, seen here

Next stage is to remove the gearbox input shaft, which I couldn't do until I removed that pesky clutch basket but with the cases spit and more room to work on it, I took it swiftly from behind

And that was that :bang: Note the official Yamaha clutch removing tools

At this point I had to call it a day, as I need a Torx headed bit to remove the screws that hold the input shaft in place. Bugger

[StrokerBoy]

Missed this thread before. Just read the whole thing through from the beginning (um, sorry boss). Nice write up and good skills with the spanners.

[Adam]

Is there any sign to the cause of the gearbox niggle?

[MonkeyJim]

Missed this thread before. Just read the whole thing through from the beginning (um, sorry boss). Nice write up and good skills with the spanners.

cheers, you're forgiven

it's been really interesting to work on the engine - I've never really done anything major to the engine apart from routine servicing & fitting the exhaust system

Is there any sign to the cause of the gearbox niggle?

Not yet.

the engine that is being taken to bits is the original one, which was knackered - see earlier in this thread for the history.

I'm taking the gearbox out of this engine, to put into the engine which is currently in the bike. I had no problems at all with the original gearbox, even when the engine went tits up.

I'm guessing at the mo, but I suspect the replacement engine will have worn dogs or selector forks/drum. It only happens on 2nd & 3rd gears, all the others are fine. It appears to be a not uncommon problem on the early R1's.

Next step will be to drop the replacement engine out of the bike and do the same process, so it's been quite handy to go through the process & see what is involved.

more to follow this weekend hopefully...

[Crooked]

Blimey Jim,

Double open heart surgery are you a masochist ?

Reading with interest, hope all goes well and the R1's box comes good

[MonkeyJim]

Blimey Jim,

Double open heart surgery are you a masochist ?

Reading with interest, hope all goes well and the R1's box comes good

Yes I guess I must be. Also I do like having a go with the spanners.

No progress on the gearbox to speak of, I'm waiting on some spares from Yamaha which have been delayed.

but unexpectedly I ended up working from home yesterday

which came as a shock

forks replaced by Harris stand

and these bits are off to M C Technics for a service

along with this box of silver and gold goodness

I'm booked in with MCT for tomorrow but there's more snow forecast for later today/tomorrow, so I might see if I can get up there today instead...

[fuelline]

Good skillorz Jim.

Hopefully the bastard will go back together okay.

When the gearbox went on the 9R it was worn selector dogs, a common problem. As from new the tangs on them are only a few mil and they obviously wear quickly.

Hope it's a smooth journey back on to the road.

[MonkeyJim]

Cheers Dan

Well good timing I had a call yesterday to say all the spares I ordered have arrived, so I'll be picking them up later today & hopefully I can finish off sorting the gearbox out over the festive break.

MCT could fit me in yesterday so I hot footed it up to Stowmarket with a boot full of springy things

4WD, 225bhp & heated leather seats made short work of the bad weather

Darren has a twiddle on me knob

while Tom gets to work stripping down the forks to service them

while I have a drool over this very tasty 1098R, Darren's track 'Blade and a current model R1 trackbike

my shock being re-assembled - it needed a new seal on the piston in the resevoir but otherwise was all good

the steering damper got a service too with fresh oil and seals. All in all about a couple of hours and I was on my way back.

While the shock's out I'm going to strip down the rear linkage for a clean and re-grease. I'm even thinking I might whip the swingarm out and do likewise, along with the head bearings.

[hoona6]

Good spanner twirling skills monkey nuts.

[MonkeyJim]

Yeah one of the best things I did with the R1 was to fit a full akrapovic exhaust system.

Unhook 4 springs and undo the bolt holding the exhaust can onto the hanger and the link pipe and can come off in about one minute flat.

With that out of the way, getting the shock out was a doddle, whereas normally the link pipe really gets in the way.

now the shock is out, it's only one more bolt to remove and the whole linkage is out. I've not had the swingarm out before (the garage did it last time) but it looks pretty straightforward, especially once the shock is out.

Not done the steering head bearings before either but I fancy having a go... I've picked up a tub of silkolene pro rg-2 grease as recommended recently in PB

[trackdaybob]

Good progress again fella.

Both my 4xv & 5jj engines are out at the moment. One for a gearbox problem (no 3rd) similar to yours I imagine and the other one needs a new crank after a wee oil starvation problem. I've got some badly scored journals. Beyond polishing unfortunately. The good news is I do happen to have a spare crank lying about in the garage.

[2Smoke]

Awesome read!

Top marks to you, I've yet to strip my r1 motor (and judging by my poor oil change intervals + doing many trackdays it'll come sooner rather than later) but nice to see what goes on!

[MonkeyJim]

finally managed to make a bit of progress today between Christmas festivities, hangovers and some other issues

got the forks & front wheel back in the bike, along with the rear shock [OE for now as I've yet to whip out the swingarm and rear linkage for a clean]

after that, went back to tackling the main job in hand, the gearbox. with newly-acquired Torx30 bit, two of the screws holding the input shaft came out no bother. Sadly, by the time they came to fit the third screw, Yamaha had run out of steel and instead used a soft cheese - I think a ripe brie would be the closest equivalent.

The f***ing c***t rounded off as soon as I even got close to it. Happy bloody christmas, ya bastid. After trying various methods and much cursing I eventually resorted to taking a Dremel to it and the bearing housing. Finally the desired result was achieved

with the input shaft removed I packed up the various bits of engine and gearbox that were scattered around the batcave. Which I then treated to a thorough tidy & sweep up, in prepartion for dropping out engine no.2 from the bike...

[Mark/Foggy]

Hiya matey, have you thought to put a new selector shaft in, the tangs on the end with the detent springs have a habit of shearing away!

[MonkeyJim]

Hiya matey, have you thought to put a new selector shaft in, the tangs on the end with the detent springs have a habit of shearing away!

Do you mean the detent spring that returns the gear lever? I've never had any problems with mine during 40k+ miles on the R1, but it's not an unknown problem. A few years ago a mate's 2001 5JJ model return spring broke, we were in the south of France at the time...!

Over the festive break, with the bike mobile again I've started work on removing the engine from the bike:

full system removed to drain the oil & coolant, front subframe removed also as I need to replace a bulb in the clocks.

A very productive day yesterday I'm ready to drop the engine out - hopefully this weekend with a bit of luck

[2639]

For getting that bolt out you could try a hammer and small chisel and tap it firmly to see if it undoes. If its not loctited you might be lucky. If it doesn't move after a few strikes, stop. Don't mangle it. Plan B would be for local welder to put blobs of weld onto end of thread, maybe weld nut to blobs, then undo. Make 100% sure no snotters remain in cases afterwards.

Might be worth posting a pic of what your doing to secure the clutch too. Once is for experience, twice.... eek.

Be very methodical with the gear box, can be easy to make a mistake, and all the bits can look the same if jumbled up. If its together right it should all turn and select the 6 gears easily. If it seems like the gear shafts will not fit to the selector forks when installing into the cases... theres something wrong.

Good luck.

[MonkeyJim]

A very productive day yesterday I'm ready to drop the engine out - hopefully this weekend with a bit of luck

some more progress - I managed to get down to the garage early on Sunday morning...

After swapping the engine last summer I decided there had to be a better way than balancing it on a trolley jack and needing at least one, preferably two extra pairs of hands... so since then I've laid my hands on a proper hydraulic lift

here's the bike with the engine stripped down - radiator removed, fuel tank/airbox/coils/carbs removed.

I was going to work on the bike outside but it was bloody freezing and also the concrete outside is pretty rough & uneven, so we moved indoors

platform raised to take the weight of the engine, so the mounting bolts can be removed

and but a few minutes later taa-daa thar she blows

I didn't have time to start taking the engine to bits but hopefully more to come shortly

[trackdaybob]

Hey I am just admiring your hydraulic platform. I could sure use one of them. Where did you get it?