Houston we have a problem...

[MonkeyJim]

All's well that ends well

well.... not quite. Here is the news, and sadly it isn't great

it seems my spannering skillz and previous optimism were misplaced

I was out on the bike on Sunday 16th over at Finchingfield, with Dan of this Parish. The R1 was running great, I had a lovely ride and all was well in the world.

As I was coming back towards Hatfield on the A414, as I came up to a roundabout and changed down a few gears, the engine suddenly started making a horrible noise

It appeared to disappear when I pulled the clutch in, I though bloody hell not again. Anyway, apart from the horrible noise, the engine was otherwise running ok, and as I was less than 10 miles from home I limped the bike back.

Subsequently I have taken the clutch apart [again] and couldn't find anything wrong with it. So on Saturday just gone, as the bike was due an MOT in the afternoon, I thought I would just play safe and put the original [non-slipper] clutch back in.

But when I started the bike up again, the same noise was still there. And it's not coming from the clutch, oh no. It's definitely 100% coming from the top of the engine. Oh FFS Originally I thought the noise must be coming from the clutch as when I pulled the lever in the noise stopped, but of course I was shutting the throttle at the same time.

I won't bore you with the details, as I don't really know, but suffice to say it's not good. The camchain tensioner has been removed & reset and it's not that. So possible other culprits are the cams, valves or possibly even little ends. Or all of the above. or something else. Whatever it is, it sounds serious.

I took the bike to a local garage for an independent opinion - ie. not the fuckers who fucked the clutch. They took one listen and went 'oh fuck'. They advised that my best bet would be to get a replacement engine, then worry about what had gone wrong with mine.

It would cost at least a couple of hundred quid for them to take the head off to find out what is up. And then there's the cost of replacement parts, and the labour. It's so much easier to do with the engine out of the frame.

So.... last night I went and picked up an engine from a breakers in Hertford.

It's missing the clutch cover and generator cover, and the starter motor - all of which I have. £425 for cash seemed pretty good as engines go. Apparently it runs fine with 'no smoke or rattles' but there's a 28-day warranty on it if not.

And with a teeny tiny bit of luck :beg: I'll have it fitted over the weekend.

The clock is ticking as I have a trackday on the 12th [already paid for] plus, more much importantly, EuroTrash 2010 is first week in July.

As an aside, I'm convinced this problem is related to the clutch issue. The oil & water pumps are driven off the back of the clutch basket. When the clutch came apart and jammed, the oil and water pumps would have stopped. I suspect the head has been starved of oil and/or coolant & something has failed.

The knackerd engine will be going back to the garage who have caused all this, for them to sort it. I've already spoken to them about it and made it VERY clear

watch this space

[ronenige]

while the engine is out , have a check of the valve clearances , It's much easier to do with it out , A thing to watch for ( seen it a few times ) make sure the carbs are on all the way , it's not unknown for them to pop off at one end or another . take the old one out in as big a lump as you can and put the new one in the same , saves a lot of time , don't forget the earth lead when your taking it out or the neutral switch before you put it back in . it's a fairly straight forward job , you shouldn't have any problems

[MonkeyJim]

while the engine is out , have a check of the valve clearances , It's much easier to do with it out , A thing to watch for ( seen it a few times ) make sure the carbs are on all the way , it's not unknown for them to pop off at one end or another . take the old one out in as big a lump as you can and put the new one in the same , saves a lot of time , don't forget the earth lead when your taking it out or the neutral switch before you put it back in . it's a fairly straight forward job , you shouldn't have any problems

Thanks for the advice.

I hear what you are saying about the valve clearances but TBH I'm not sure I'll be tackling them first. Don't get me wrong, I know how to do them, it's just about having the time.

At the moment the absolute priority is just to get the old engine out and the new one in asap - I want to make sure it's a runner and all ok, then get some miles on it whilst it's still under warranty.

Picked up a trolley jack last night from a mate, and started stripping off all the sundry bits and bobs to make the job as easy as possible - hopefully.

Last time [err, first and only time] I did an engine swap was on my RD350, about 10 years ago. Shirley it's all the same well I'll find out over the weekend.

[Mark/Foggy]

Look carefully at how the generator lead runs, you'll probably find that a cable tie onto the back of the lump is a good idea to keep it out of the way. Leave the carbs on the end of the cables and fold them over the clocks, cable tie them up there. Make sure that you've got rags down the inlets of the new engine as you lift it back into the frame. Appart from that relatively straight forward.

I feel like the harbinger of doom. Was me who cursed it.

[MonkeyJim]

Look carefully at how the generator lead runs, you'll probably find that a cable tie onto the back of the lump is a good idea to keep it out of the way. Leave the carbs on the end of the cables and fold them over the clocks, cable tie them up there. Make sure that you've got rags down the inlets of the new engine as you lift it back into the frame. Appart from that relatively straight forward.

I feel like the harbinger of doom. Was me who cursed it.

Certainly not.

It was the fucking muppet who didn't fit the clutch properly that cursed it. This all stems from that.

You just pointed out - correctly - that the oil/water pump are driven off the back of the clutch. I am 99.99% sure the top end problem [whatever it is] has resulted from oil/coolant starvation when the clutch failed.

And again, thanks for the advice - all very much appreciated

I've already had the carbs off to check it wasn't just a camchain tensioner issue, and realised they can be left connected [throttle & choke cables] and just lifted up onto the frame out of the way. Clocks will be coming off to keep them out of the way.

I have a healthy supply of rags and paper towel ready! I will try to remember to take some pics as I go, so you can share in the impending almighty fuck up of spanner twirling skillz

[Mark/Foggy]

For what it's worth my money's on big end shells No 1. Rods probably US and piston may be messy.

May have some shells knocking around, not that it's ever happened to us

nicked from race 24

"Oschersleben 24H...2007

3.5 Hours To Go

Minutes after the last update Yamaha Austria pitted with an overheating engine, and at the same time Phase One came in with clutch problems. YART have rejoined the race, but Phase One are still in the pits. Kawasaki France are now in third place, Bolliger fourth and Phase One fifth, with the No.17 BMW closing in on Phase One. "

One of the worst moments I've had at a race meeting, that's me in the red fire suit, suitably gutted as we were just about to inherit 2nd when Warwick Nowland cruised down the pit straight with his hand in the air.

[heds954]

That's some lairy Morris dancing outfit you're wearing!?

[MonkeyJim]

For what it's worth my money's on big end shells No 1. Rods probably US and piston may be messy

Gentlemen.... Prace your bets - NOW! What has gone wrong with my engine?

The lucky winner *may* receive some shrapnel that was a former R1 top end. Would make a lovely ashtray.

and I am liking the red overall look. Might have to get some for the weekend, much more professional than my scruffy old clothes.

I think that would increase my spannering skillz to 110%, maybe more

Not sure about the Morris dancing bit though, might give that a miss if that's ok

[Mark/Foggy]

I was meant to be putting out fires during pitstops, the morris dancing thing developed out of having to fill 50 minutes of any given hour with nothing to do. Obviously having an inexhaustible supply of energy and a need to broaden the cultural horizons of those landlocked Gents over in Europe, is a usefull attribute if you enjoy Endurance racing.

[ronenige]

Isn't there some sort of code with the rag hanging out of your pocket ?, one side indicates giving and the other one taking or summat like that

[Mark/Foggy]

And in the draw marked 'Big Hammers', there's my mate Lumpy, he'll be the one giving then, next time we meet obviously.

[hoona6]

How you getting on with your engine swap?

Fingers crossed that it's going well.

[MonkeyJim]

I just had a thought on the way home, could it be some debris in the engine from when you had the clutch problem? Some small amount of swarf or something causing buggery maybe, getting its way into an oil galley or something.

I should be concentrating on more important things when filtering down the north circ.

it had crossed my mind too, but when I took out the slipper clutch there was no sign of any damage/swarf etc. I checked the clutch centre and clutch basket thoroughly, along with all the friction plates and steels.

How you getting on with your engine swap?

Fingers crossed that it's going well.

Thanks. Haven't done the swap yet, that's the plan for over the weekend. Have spent today [working from home] getting all the bits & bobs together - oil, filter, gaskets, red overalls for Morris dancing etc etc

will keep you posted

[MonkeyJim]

quick update on the bike... spent the weekend getting the engines swapped over.

first off when I drained the oil out of the engine there were metal flakes clearly visible in the oil. Not good.

A few other things I discovered: the front sprocket has to or three teeth missing. clearly not through wear, looks like they've snapped off - can only guess that happened when the rear wheel locked up when all this started.

Also noticed that the clutch basket on the the original engine is stuck, it just won't come off. Unlike the replacement engine, with the clutch centre removed the basket came straight off. Again I'm guessing but figure that must be a result of when the clutch centre came out and jammed.

Anyway I took my time and went slowly, carefully and methodically, labelling things as I went.

yesterday morning, with the help of a couple of mates and a trolley jack, we took out the old engine and put in the new one. TBH it was pretty straightforward.

Decided better safe than sorry so took extra time swapping over the starter motor, oil level sensor, neutral light switch & speedo sensor, as I know mine are good.

New engine turns over but wouldn't start. Well, not quite. Just as I was about to give up as the battery was going flat, it almost coughed into life. Almost! there was definitely life there. Sadly then the battery did go flat.

hoping to have another go later, the battery should be fully charged up again by then. I'll re-check that the carbs and plug leads are all fitted properly.

[hoona6]

So close...

When you're done, wheel the old engine into the shop and leave it burning on their parts counter.

[Tomfoolery]

Ooooo so close.

[MonkeyJim]

ok first off here's some pics from the weekend that was...

Saturday morning, bike up on stands, ready to be hacked to pieces

draining the oil. See those sparkly bits? Them's flakes of metal, them is. That's not a good sign

tank off, exhaust off, mudguard off and bollocks it's just started raining

airbox off, carbs off and out of the way - they bungee nicely on top of the frame rails so the thottle cables can stay connected

radiator and coolant pipes removed. Still raining

first casualty of the day. in removing the gear shift, the wire broke off the quickshifter rod. Arse.

second casualty. Front sprocket - think there's a bit more going on here than 'wear and tear' - I'm guessing the damage was done when the clutch failed and the wheel locked up.

and sunday morning - at last sunshine! - and I can get the old and new out for a quick pre-op scrub down.

I love the smell of Gunk in the morning.

old engine out...

and new one in...

and now for the news....

I went back to the garage yesterday evening with a fully charged battery.

After another squillion turns on the starter, and me shouting 'START YOU BASTARD' at it, it finally did.

Good times

Unfotunately it sounds worse than the old engine. much, much worse. More rattles than a bag of spanners in a washing machine, as me dad would say.

It sounds totally fucked. Bad times

Just phoned the breakers and told them it will be coming back to them 'good runner' my arse

Already on the hunt for another engine - I'm down but not out fellas

Think I may have found one, hoping to source one this week and get it fitted on Saturday.

Reckon I could do the swap in half the time, next time, now I know what I'm doing.

I've got a trackday booked for the following weekend well it will need running in, won't it?

watch this space...

[dodgy_tom]

Sorry to read of your woes, that front sprocket looks like it was fucked about 3000 miles ago though, the way it's all hooked and worn. The lock up could just have been the last straw for the weakened teeth. Good luck getting a fresh motor.

[heds954]

Sorry to read of your woes, that front sprocket looks like it was fucked about 3000 miles ago though, the way it's all hooked and worn. The lock up could just have been the last straw for the weakened teeth. Good luck getting a fresh motor.

Agreed, looks fooked, no wonder teeth snapped, I'm surprised they didn't fall off of their own accord.

[MonkeyJim]

whaddya mean? there's another 35,000 miles left in that sprocket. Well, there would be if it had all its teeth.

[zx6rrob]

^

[fuelline]

I've got a trackday booked for the following weekend well it will need running in, won't it?

watch this space...

Where's the track day? I'll have it off you.

Good luck with getting it back together...or get it back together fuck it off and an Ape waits...somewhere..

[MonkeyJim]

Where's the track day? I'll have it off you.

Good luck with getting it back together...or get it back together fuck it off and an Ape waits...somewhere..

Thanks Dan.... you're all heart

BTW it's bedford autodrome on Sat 12th June so the clock is now really ticking.

But there is some good news, I found a new engine yesterday and have bought it for £500, it's in Guildford so I can go and have a look at it before parting with the cash.

Hoping to do that tomorrow and get the engines swapped over on Saturday

[MonkeyJim]

The R1...... IT LIVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA SHAKES FIST AT THE SKY>

Picked up replacement engine No.2 on Thursday night. Apart from a scraped, but not holed, genny cover it appeared in much better condition than replacement No.1.

So, with the help of a couple of mates, we started early and by 11am the old engine was out and the new one was in. Piece of piss this engine fitting lark - well it was much easier the second time around, anyway.

Took the first engine back to the breakers and got my money back. Then settled in for the afternoon's spannering.

Powered by the twin delights of KFC [Zinger salsa wrap; their chips are crap though] and Corona [sadly no lime] all the bits went back on the engine and I got it all connected up. A couple of mates helped pass the spanners and occasionally ask 'Jim what does that bit do?' and 'stop crying Jim, this one will be alright'

By 5pm it was crunch time - the moment of truth. I filled the bike with fresh oil and coolant, and put the battery back in. Ignition on....

I poked the starter button with a stick. It turned over freely. I did that a couple of time to get some oil up around the engine.

Then a bit of throttle and... VROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM it burst into life. oh yeah baby

While it ticked over I savoured the final Corona and smoked a celebratory roll up. Probably the finest beer and cigarette I have ever enjoyed I let it run up to temperature until the fan kicked in, and all seems to be A-ok.

It sounds schweeeet, well just like mine used to do. It runs and ticks over fine. It didn't shit itself and dump oil and/or coolant, or burst into flames, so far so good.

I went back to the bike yesterday and it started first time on the button. I swapped the engine covers for my NRC ones, and got all the bodywork back on and the bike is now ready for a road test and an MOT sometime this week. Fingers crossed I will be going on my trackday this Saturday

Brucey Bonus: when I took the oil filler cap off, I noticed something unusual. Hello, what's that lurking in there? It's only got a Barnett coil spring conversion fitted.

Funnily enough I had one of these before, I was about to fit it but bought the slipper clutch instead. I sold it to Peter30 of this Parish http://pbmagforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=7523

As I'll be fitting the new engine with my Sigma clutch, the Barnett jobby will be for sale if anyone is interested... Peter do you fancy another?

[hoona6]

^^

Winsome situation. Hooorah!

[dodgy_tom]

Nice one fella, always pleasing to read of workshop successes.

[paul8899]

As I'll be fitting the new engine with my Sigma clutch

don't forget to put that little tab washer in

[MonkeyJim]

don't forget to put that little tab washer in

It'll be alright without it, Shirley?

I mean, what's the worst that can happen?

[paul8899]

good to hear you finally got it running again, what happened with the bike shop ?

[Crooked]

Bloody Hell Jim, you don't do things by half ! Two engine swaps ??

Good to read its running again