speedy sie Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 big wow... just seen some of the work and some credit to Richard.. the carbon looks just like factory parts...bloody awesome and super light,its unreal..droool,yummm,yummmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2639 Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 Sounds like good progress, Rich. How much weight has it saved? What you doing to protect the resin against ethanol in the petrol? Oh and Sie... lose an r, and its demigods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepower Posted April 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 big wow... just seen some of the work and some credit to Richard.. the carbon looks just like factory parts...bloody awesome and super light,its unreal..droool,yummm,yummmm Sounds like good progress, Rich. How much weight has it saved? What you doing to protect the resin against ethanol in the petrol? Oh and Sie... lose an r, and its demigods. Cheers Sie.... The one you have is a scrapper... Not good enough to use for a customer one. But it was really good for a first attempt (apparently) Wait until the full kit is done and it is as it should be..... Andy.... You bastid.... I had to rush off and weigh the wet lay carbon belly pan I was sent by the original guy who was making them... That one was 982 grams and mine is 424 grams. So it is less than half the weight of the first carbon one I was sent. Compared to the plastic one... Not sure but if I work on the plastic being about the same as chopped matt glass then the plastic one would be at least 2kg possibly closer to 2.5kg. The estimate for the fuel tank, seat unit and then the fairing is about 4 to 4.5KG . The ethanol issue is partly cured with the two inner layers of Diolen which is a high performance polyester material I get which is made as a pre-preg for me and that copes with the ethanol we have in fuel. I also have a wash that is to stop is attacking the epoxy resin on the inner surface layer of carbon. So the lay up is carbon on both outer faces and several layers of Diolen working as a bladder inside the carbon skins. The is also some kevlar just to be on the safe side too.... so the tank will be close to 2mm thick and this is more than strong enough. Most Carbon F1 chassis are only about 1mm thick in most places and only made thicker where structural parts mount... This is not good.... I didnt make it.... It is full carbon though.... A waste of good carbon if you ask me too.... haha.. Weight of the wet lay belly pan... 982 Grams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballbag Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 How long till we see this all mounted up on a bike? I'm considering buying an RS250 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepower Posted May 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 How long till we see this all mounted up on a bike? I'm considering buying an RS250 I am or was supposed to be laying up a kit this week... I have to chase the original pattern maker for material as he had been paid and not made the kits he was supposed to make... It has been frustrating seeing the moulds so close but so far.... There is only one part of the mould left to make the tank base... I have to make one full seat and tank kit to use for sizing of the base for bonding purposes... So if the material arrives before next week I am off to start lay up of the 4-5 kits that have been ordered and my own kit.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballbag Posted May 17, 2012 Report Share Posted May 17, 2012 How much is the kit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepower Posted May 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2012 How much is the kit? Still sorting that out to be honest... Not sure if I need 10sq/m or 13sq/m of materials and which ones I can use to get what I want but not have to spend £60+ per meter of material plus steel inserts, special adhesives to bond the base to the tank body and consumables like bags,tape, breather,peel ply and release films ect. The price I was told ( I am sort of laughing thinking about it as there is NO way I could charge that much) it would be if it were for a factory or for some proper exotica would be £5000+. BDK are selling a race FZR400 faring for £695+ vat, fuel tank £590+vat and a self supporting seat unit for £360 + Vat which is £1974 inc vat. They even say it has pin holes and is race part not cosmetic at all... I plan on making parts that are as pin hole free as possible, have a bladder built into the fuel tank not just carbon and hope it doesnt shatter if it hits the deck. And the set unit and tank are all one piece... If I can do them for under £2000 I would be happy. But forum rates are a little different... I will sort out a price and PM you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris675 Posted May 17, 2012 Report Share Posted May 17, 2012 whats happening with the fairing stay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepower Posted May 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2012 There is a bike up with Speedy Sie at the moment... he is jigging and making up the first ones..... give him a shout and if you want one let him know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2639 Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Rich Dont forget to factor something in for heating / electric. It must add up.In theory you could omit the underside mould, creat a temporary bridge in something like polyurathane foam should dissolve in acetone so the golopy remains would come ut the filler cap. Least I think it would work. Spazmoid typing as pooter keyboard is fucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepower Posted May 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Rich Dont forget to factor something in for heating / electric. It must add up.In theory you could omit the underside mould, creat a temporary bridge in something like polyurathane foam should dissolve in acetone so the golopy remains would come ut the filler cap. Least I think it would work. Spazmoid typing as pooter keyboard is fucked. Spazmoid typing..... just because it is me...... I have looked into the whole electricity thing.. OK the oven cost is what it is... But the oven has to be about 8 feet by 4 feet by 4 feet internal size. So heating that up to about 120 degrees C (depending on spec of material used) at a rate the material will tell me and could be from 1 degree per minute up to a speedy 2 degrees per minute.. This could need between 6 and 9 Kw of power. It then has to hold its temperature at the curing point for up to about 8 or 9 hours then cool down to a point I can take it out and not get burnt.. So from putting the part into the oven to taking it out would be about 11 hours. (Then I would have to de-mould the part while it is still warm or it will crack the moulds) So running up to 9kw eliments for up to 11 hours would be quite expensive so there is no way I would make just a fairing then just the seat and tank in seperate oven runs.. The tank base (see below) has to have inserts for the top of the tank to attach to the frame and then inserts for the fuel tap...Making a foam base then laminating over it would be too much of a gamble on where the inserts sit and if they are the right distance from the frame ect.. So it will have to be when I can get Vic to do it or when I can do it myself with Vic offering advice... I would not risk making a mess this close to completion... Making a wet lay glass fibre kit for eBay is not hard or too expensive... But it is rough and ready and would not be suitable to be put on a road bike that has to look amazing... It would need so much prep work that it would double or triple the cost of buying it.... In carbon you cannot do the same level of prep work even with wet lay unless you are painting over it fully.... In pre-preg... with .1 of a MM of resin on the surface.. there is no room for prep work so the parts have to be spot on out of the moulds. I looked at it when I first started doing this.... I estimated a price for making parts and soon learned that making the parts IS the cheap bit.... The moulds cost an arm and a leg and in this case a healthy liver may need to be sold... The last estimate of the total price for the finished moulds is £7000.... I need to go and sit now now.... That is 3 times the price the origianal pattern maker said it would be... But then his moulds would have been crappy eBay body kit quality... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepower Posted June 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 I NOW FINALLY.. have the moulds here... just one simple bit left to do is the tank base once the first kits are made... The base has to be made to suit the part so have to make a kit then make the base to suit.. But I have one job to do first..... Polish the seat and tank mould... Just had a paid job to get done recently....Some Bimota SB6 frame protectors.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2639 Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 Well then... Taps fingers impatiently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris675 Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 high on solvents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2639 Posted August 15, 2012 Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 More likely its the heater electrics have killed him until deadness. The workshop has adequate ventilation... aka leaks like sieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
si.likes.guiness Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 no he's alive and kicking as i spoke to him the other day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
si.likes.guiness Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 slight update for you all,rich came down yesterday to drop me something off and we went to fetch the carbon fairing as it was ready Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepower Posted August 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 Sorry..... Just been so mad recently..... Bimota bits for Evil Chicken and his mates.... Plus been back and forth to the pattern makers.... He has 30 years of composites experience so best make the most of the free (if you call getting him to make £7000 worth of moulds free!) advice.. Just so you get an idea of weight... these are some I have to make due to the original supplier not doing a single thing they promised... But they have supplied me materials so I can make them myself.... How kind of them especially as they were paid up front!! But the weight of these, using heavy overkill backing carbon that is twice the weight of the material I plan to use and have done a test part with, is 1.5kg for the complete fairing with the material I have tested and plan to use I can get the complete fairing down to about 1kg and possibly sub 1kg if I try.... Here is a picture of the inside of the radiator tunnel.... I even tried to keep the joins neat in the places you cannot see.... Two fairing kits I have made over the past two weeks..... I still have to do the seat and tank but that is being post cured at the moment and dees 24 hours of heat treatment before I can use it.... Un-trimmed and a bit dusty but no pin holes here.. The best pre-preg is not cheap but does make a difference.... Here are a few of the moulds with the carbon being laid up or in the vacuum bag... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepower Posted August 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 Finally one of the moulds in the oven.... Cannot wait until mine is made....... If I dont have any carbon to cook.... I can do a line in huge pizzas in my spare time.... lol.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHimmer45 Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 What do you want to have for it? Some of the simple stuff you can do yourself quite easily. Other stuff will need moulds making but I now have numbers for 2 or 3 pattern makers who can make moulds for me and soon I am hoping the pre-preg oven will be done and in the other workshop. something along the lines of bellypan/rear bodywork front mud guard etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepower Posted August 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 something along the lines of bellypan/rear bodywork front mud guard etc If you can mock something up and get a good finish onto it then moulding from it gets easier and if you can (with a bit of advice either from the internerd or thinking about it carefully) put some flanges on the mock up so a mould can be made straight from those mock up parts it is not too hard to get started.. The moulds are the most important bit and need the most work to get a perfect finish, if there is a scratch or blemish on the mould you will see it on the parts.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHimmer45 Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 ive got several spare belly pans for example so could be used to make a mould Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepower Posted September 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 Cool... Yes get one that needs the least work to make it as perfect as possible... just dont risk wrecking a good one.... Get it filled and painted to be as perfect as possible then put the flanges onto it and make sure it has no negative shape to make it lock into the mould when it is made.. if it needs to be made in a 2 piece mould then look into how you would divide it up and mark it up so you can put another flange onto the part that will be the split line.... See below.. It is one half of the belly pan mould for the Aprilia. Just take your time and it should turn out fine.... Just if you make a mould make sure you either use a PVA release or lots and lots of release wax. Quick update..... Been a mad few weeks... Daves NS/RVF bike is due back... And the electrics should be done very very soon.... ready for me to get running and finish off brackets and other detail stuff before trimming up the bodywork to fit round the new pipes ect.... So in the mean time... I have got 3 full fairings made and the seat/tank mould is now post cured ready to start making parts... Just waiting for the idiot who took on the work originally to send me the rest of the materials so I can do his bloody job... After someone said the kit looked big I had to try it for size..... It is a lot smaller than the Aprilia bodywork....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
si.likes.guiness Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 looks fooking lovely rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erskimo Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 the big question is whats going to be the next seat unit that will be seen on every second built bike . . . . . CBR 1000 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepower Posted September 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 the big question is whats going to be the next seat unit that will be seen on every second built bike . . . . . CBR 1000 ? Hope they want mine....lol.... I would make them all day everyday no problem.... haha... Back to todays update... I have been playing with a hugger idea..... It is a mix of hugger, swing arm covers and chain guard.... What do you think of my rough mock up? It is not connected together yet and is just a reshaped Factory Yamaha R1 World Superbike hugger I just happen to have sitting here doing nothing.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erskimo Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 well i am only one highside away from needing new bodywork, as for your wheel hugger/chain gard..........you do know that if slavery was still around id have you in my workshop.............i would give you Juila Crown though....................................................................................cue thinking of Juila Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepower Posted September 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 well i am only one highside away from needing new bodywork, as for your wheel hugger/chain gard..........you do know that if slavery was still around id have you in my workshop.............i would give you Juila Crown though....................................................................................cue thinking of Juila Hmmm... If Julia were included in the offer.... I would be there.... Just would take a bit longer as I would be quite busy or shattered..... The fairing would work and is the same as Si is using. The seat is different now to fit the Aprilia. Thanks for liking the Hugger/swingarm protector and chain guard idea... Not done anymore on that yet..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepower Posted April 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 Been locked away in the workshop for the past few months...... have a few other customer related things I have had to get done or do... Wavys Honda is slowly getting there and had to make some Moto3 parts.... But now the seat and tank have been finished and have a base bonded into it.... There is a light at the end of the very long and very dark tunnel.. I now also have a finished weight for the seat/tank unit... It is a massively over engineered and heavyweight 2.170Kg! The filler cap actually makes it almost 50% heavier when it is fitted! Now I need to make a carbon filler cap... haha... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMSMJ1 Posted April 26, 2013 Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 Rompy might explode... That is tres bon innit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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