scwirral Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Have just ordered replacement bolts and a bolt extractor kit. Bolts were in at correct torque but one of the bastards rounded straight off when I tried to undo it. Should I put copper grease or something on the new bolts to prevent them corroding in the alloy caliper? Cheers, guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billysbones Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Have just ordered replacement bolts and a bolt extractor kit. Bolts were in at correct torque but one of the bastards rounded straight off when I tried to undo it. Should I put copper grease or something on the new bolts to prevent them corroding in the alloy caliper? Cheers, guys I would check your manual, but I would say the reverse. my manual says loctite, and that would make sense. You don't want your caliper bolts to come out too easily. If Its really a problem, crack them off every year, clean off the bolts and put fresh loctite on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 I've just had this same problem trying to get a couple of bolts out of the calipers and forks I've bought for the Kat. Luckily, I ended up with only 1 caliper bolt in the caliper itself. so i managed to pivot the caliper on the fork leg instead of trying to do anything with the bolt, which was rapidly rounding everytime I put something near it. I used a load of wd40 (have run out of plus gas, which is better), then heated the bolt and the back of the caliper a bit, then some more wd40, then a dirty great screw driver to lever the caliper away from the fork leg. I could only get about 10 deg of movement on the caliper because of how it's mounted, but it was enough to at least 'crack' the seal and get the bolt turning. You know what I'd suggest, although it's far from cheap, is titanium bolts. I think a set of 4 will set you back about £6 or so, but they'll never corrode in, the heads are stronger than the mild steel that you're starting with, there's mild performance benefits and they look a bit bling. I've fitted them to my last couple of bikes for this very reason, and although I've not kept one of my bikes long enough for them to corrode in really badly or anything, I use a little bit of semi-permanent thread lock and they still come out 1st time i get the ratchet to them. While you're buying, get some titanium bleed nipples too, they'll come in handy for the exact same reasons. I've had a caliper essentially written off because of a knackered thread on a bleed nipple, and that'll never happen with titanium. Buy cheap, buy twice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number 6 Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 Bloody hell!! 6 quid for a set of ti caliper bolts, did you miss a zero off that or do you have a secret source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scwirral Posted October 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 Bloody hell!! 6 quid for a set of ti caliper bolts, did you miss a zero off that or do you have a secret source? Yeap, I decided to replace all four bolts and just paid £8 for mild steel bolts (with big H part no.s)..... How much would it cost to build a new bike from the part numbers? Mega bucks! Mate is lending me these to help: Bolt extractor sockets Tyre shops use bigger sockets like this to rag off locking wheel nuts when numpties aint got a key Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 Bloody hell!! 6 quid for a set of ti caliper bolts, did you miss a zero off that or do you have a secret source? Erm, yeah, I do. Or I completely made the price up and got it way wrong! I meant about about £6 a bolt, but having had a loo, I think I've got it a bit wrong on that figure too. I can't beleive I bought a set of these last year, I must've been a bit flush... Talking of which, has anybody bought anything off BSR recently? I've had a look at their website and all the ti stuff's out of stock, I wonder if they're doing it any more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number 6 Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 BSR are no longer trading, Wendy has wound it up. I was lucky enough to get some ti bolts in their closing down sale and most of the bike friendly sizes went pretty quick, the rest went to someone in Ireland as a job lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 That's a real shame as their customer sevice was always much better than pro-bolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pauly Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 You should always lubricate bolts, especially when you have 2 disimilar metals. I always lube my caliper bolts and as long as they are done up to the corrrect torque they will not come undone. There is an alternative, it's zinc chromate paste. It comes in a tube under the product name of Duralac. It basically acts like a grease but is in fact a paint that does not harden. It serves to 'insulate' the parts of the assembly and so prevent disimilar material corrosion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pauly Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 What makes you say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pauly Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 Ok, you are apparently well versed in the principles of engineering. Have you ever built a motorbike? I appreciate that your argument is sound, but seriously, do you honestly think it's appropriate in this sphere? I have been building motorcycles for over 30 years and I build aeroplanes for a living. Never have my assemblies come apart, especially not from applying lubricant or anti corrosive compound to a bolt. In fact, the application of durulac or similar is recommended in the case of fixed pitch propeller bolts. Your initial remark, that my advice is dangerous and ill informed, is clearly wrong and I would urge you to consider the context in which the answer was given. The bloke is fitting new bolts to his calipers because the last owner dry assembled the originals! He's not re-designing the space shuttle. You cite the instance of nylon nuts used to attach rear sprockets. Would you care to tell me what you use to lubricate your chain? And, if you are able to keep it off the nuts, how? Or are we all in iminent danger of losing our rear sprockets? Can I suggest you climb down from your high horse and consider your remarks more carefully in the future. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave69 Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 sounds like handbags at dawn, calm down anyone heard of lockwiring the bolts in place as well as using an anti-sieze compound. repeated use in bad elements swap from the std bolts to a stainless or Ti bolt if affordable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 Is stainless not a bit of a no-no in situations like brake caliper mounts? i was under the impression that the shear strength wasn't up to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 Is stainless not a bit of a no-no in situations like brake caliper mounts? i was under the impression that the shear strength wasn't up to it? I put stainless disc bolts in my R6, from Pro-Bolt. After emailing them my concerns, they 100% assured me they were ok for such use as they were a different grade of stainless. I had no problems with them. I hope the bloke I sold my R6 to is ok mind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blow_away Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 Right then guys can you clarify this for me? Words on one sylable or less please, I'm a bit thick Yesterday I totally rebuilt the front brakes on my 1998 CBR600. New hoses, new fluid, new master cylinder, all cleaned up and looking sweet. The front brakes are frequently removed due to the nature of use, i.e. trackdays, 10+ per year. The original caliper mounting bolts looked well worn, so I put in some new M8 cap screws which I cut to the correct length. I put Copaslip on them as I always do. I did not lockwire them. I can easily clean the Copaslip off, but I am worried about the repeated use problem. So, 1. What fasteners should I use, OEM, Stainless, Ti? 2. I guess I had better invest in some lockwiring pliers (woo hoo! new tools!) 3. How many times can I reuse the fasteners? I am talking about number of times assembled. I guess this depends on the answer given in point 1. 4. Use Loctite threadlock on the fasteners? Or just assemble dry? The manual says tighten to 23 Nm and to use "locking agent" so I guess that any type is OK? (Better get a torque wrench as well, lucky it Xmas soon!) I've never had an issue doing things this way, like the railway guy, but reading MM's post makes me think that now is the time to change my ways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadracer Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 1. What fasteners should I use, OEM, Stainless, Ti? 2. I guess I had better invest in some lockwiring pliers (woo hoo! new tools!) 3. How many times can I reuse the fasteners? I am talking about number of times assembled. I guess this depends on the answer given in point 1. 4. Use Loctite threadlock on the fasteners? Or just assemble dry? The manual says tighten to 23 Nm and to use "locking agent" so I guess that any type is OK? (Better get a torque wrench as well, lucky it Xmas soon!) Same boat here, lots of wheel changes. Proper thing to do is replace the caliper bolts each time they are disturbed(as any brake component should). But, the best thing for many a wheel change is to clean the old Loctite off the OEM bolt, and either re-torque and LOCKWIRE PROPERLY or simply re-apply a small amount of loctite and tighten to torque spec. I use stud lock(can't remember the number) but screw lock is semi-permanent and better than nothing. I've found lockwiring to be handy if there's no loctite on hand(and some race rules require it..), but can be a pain if you change the wheels regularly as cutting the stuff off before removal is tedious. Honestly, you can see the threads getting thinner with multiple uses and I change the caliper bolts at least 2 times a year, probably after every 5-7 wheel changes. I always use OEM for brakes. +1 on not lubricating bolts, it throws the torque setting out the window-especially bad on brake components Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacemonkey Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 So what's a beam nut? Plus is there any point in lockwiring caliper bolts? A lockwired bolt can still come loose, it just won't come out..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammerw Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 interesting thread (top pun) this. have rebuilt the brakes off my tzr -front calipers are rgv and i did try to use Ti bleed nipples but because of their hardness (i think) i didnt get a proper seat and they leaked like feck,i can only presume this is because the calipers are old and the new Ti just wont mate properly with the old caliper. fekin things cost me a fortune and they are now consigned to the shelf..doh regarding BSR and pro-bolt...BSR were very good but pro bolt are less than a mile from where i work and yes years ago i didnt really rate their products or service but now i think they have really raised their game and the products are good and the service when you go in there is excellent..it also helps that one of the ladies is a total hotty..lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastdruid Posted October 27, 2008 Report Share Posted October 27, 2008 Right then guys can you clarify this for me? Words on one sylable or less please, I'm a bit thick Yesterday I totally rebuilt the front brakes on my 1998 CBR600. New hoses, new fluid, new master cylinder, all cleaned up and looking sweet. The front brakes are frequently removed due to the nature of use, i.e. trackdays, 10+ per year. The original caliper mounting bolts looked well worn, so I put in some new M8 cap screws which I cut to the correct length. I put Copaslip on them as I always do. I did not lockwire them. Go buy some proper honda caliper bolts and replace them. Personally I'd not even consider riding the bike before doing so. They are not your normal bolts and using any old bolts and "cutting to length" is a recipe for disaster. Druid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastdruid Posted October 27, 2008 Report Share Posted October 27, 2008 A bent beam nut is an all metal nut where sections of the thread are made deformed or undersized, sometimes with slots cut into the nut itself, and when the nut is wound down onto the male thread the deformed/undersized sections grip the male thread - if you have lubricant on the threads it reduces the gripping effect. I always thought those were aero-lock but google tells me that I'm both thinking of aerotite/staytite and not of the same type of nut! Druid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blow_away Posted October 27, 2008 Report Share Posted October 27, 2008 Go buy some proper honda caliper bolts and replace them. Personally I'd not even consider riding the bike before doing so. They are not your normal bolts and using any old bolts and "cutting to length" is a recipe for disaster. Druid Done, went to Fowlers on Saturday, 4 OEM caliper bolts, £6.20 inc VAT, all in stock. Well done Fowlers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scwirral Posted October 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 Go buy some proper honda caliper bolts and replace them. Personally I'd not even consider riding the bike before doing so. Interesting discussion, chaps. I got my new OEM bolts. They come pre treated with a locking compound on them. Wonder what your average tyre fitting shops do when they whip the calipers off to get the wheels out?? That said, I haven't heard of many cases of calipers coming off and locking up the front end, so I guess failure is fairly rare, and as the bikes with the most wheel changes are gonna be track bikes, including club racers with zero cash to spend that if these failures were likely we would be hearing about them?? Anyway, the next thrilling installment of my tale is that one of the bloody pinch bolts is knackerd, so I've ordered them too. All of a sudden a shiny new bike, rather than a ten year old one, seems like a worthwhile investment..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weety Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 Paint striping sounds excellent and is something worth taking the time to do. I like the idea of being able to have a just quick look over the bike and be reassured everythings kosha. Can some one recommend a specfic type of paint stick, and how do you remove the paint ready to re-mark the bolt the nest time it is assembled? I could aquire some from work but there more like crayons!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastdruid Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 Paint striping sounds excellent and is something worth taking the time to do. I like the idea of being able to have a just quick look over the bike and be reassured everythings kosha. Can some one recommend a specfic type of paint stick, and how do you remove the paint ready to re-mark the bolt the nest time it is assembled? I could aquire some from work but there more like crayons!! I've used tipex before. Druid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YZF1K Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 I just had a similar situation on the YZF, two of the caliper bolts rounded off from using a 12 point socket. Bought a set of Irwin bolt extracting sockets, (they work fantastic) and replaced all 4 bolts with new OEM bolts. Lubed the threads with Permetex Anti-Seize, and torqued to spec. I thought about safety wiring the bolts (they are hollow) but I think I will just check them once in a while. And I will never put anything but a 6-point socket on a caliper bolt again. It's not always necessary to remove the calipers to remove the front wheel, just remove the front fender and rotate the fork tubes outward, just be mindful of the brake lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heds954 Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 I make no apology for dredging this old thread up... This morning I went for a blat out and got chatting to some of the regular faces I see whilst out and about. A father and son at Devils were telling me of sons new purchase, a very low mileage 04 cbr6rr, just had some new tyres put on, when I say new, they were used race tyres. Anywho, that's not my point, the tyre fitter that put them on also put huge amounts of Castrol red rubber grease on the caliper mount bolts which was just oozing out. The worst of it is I know of the tyre fitter and know that he has a very close association with the TT and has set up many a TT bike in his time. What's that all about, why would he have done such a thing!!?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millerich Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 If I understand this right the danger of using copper grease etc is that for a given torque setting you will overtighten the bolt as you have reduced friction in the thread, thus increasing the chances of the bolt shearing, with potential catastrophic results if it is a caliper bolt. Is it possible to know how much to safely reduce the torque setting by to allow for the friction reducing effect of the grease? Just an idle question really. I use loctite myself but it seems some use copper grease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyJim Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 out of interest... if I understand correctly, it's recommended that caliper mounting bolts are replaced when referring to radial calipers. does the same apply to normally mounted calipers [is that axial?] ie. non-radial? I've lost count of the number of times I've removed and re-fitted the calipers when swapping wheels. I'm still using the original OE mounting bolts, which i only recently noticed are actually hollow. which is nice. I always re-torque the bolts to the recommend 40nm - no thread lock - and they haven't fallen out.... yet. Am I livin' on a prayer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tootall Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 Lockwire rules. End of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo S2 Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 Normal bolts - A little bit of copper greese. Important bolts (i.e foot peg bolts), blue loctite. As per my manual. Radial caliper bolts - nothing. Just torqued up, then lockwired together so one cant come out by itself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.