fran9r Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 My local college (Grantham) ran courses many moons ago...obviously I never looked into this until recently, and they have stopped. All the local colleges seem to have moved away from these type of courses...Melton did run classic bike restoration and basic welding, but don't look likely to be this coming academic year. Anyone know training providers not scared off by this topic not too far away from me? Tinterweb searches not turning anything up. I want to learn so I can make some one off bits -if I can fab/weld exhausts, ally brackets and odd pieces, whilst using a lathe for wheel spacers and the like, I'll be a happy man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porter_jamie Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 did my BTEC at grantham college, when it was a proper college not just hairdressing. there was arow of 20 colchester student 1800s, tig/mig/gas/mills, a cnc, they even had an old dyno, a proper car workshop, engine machining kit, the works. makes me kind of sad it's all gone. Every year there used to be about 80 apprentices from the local firms doing their first year in mechanical/fitting. I dont know anyone under the age of 35 that is fully skilled... however, have big shed full of above kit about 10 miles from sunny grantham.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David W Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Have you tried Tresham College in Corby? They used to do evening classes for welding, etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fran9r Posted August 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 did my BTEC at grantham college, when it was a proper college not just hairdressing. there was arow of 20 colchester student 1800s, tig/mig/gas/mills, a cnc, they even had an old dyno, a proper car workshop, engine machining kit, the works. makes me kind of sad it's all gone. Every year there used to be about 80 apprentices from the local firms doing their first year in mechanical/fitting. I dont know anyone under the age of 35 that is fully skilled... however, have big shed full of above kit about 10 miles from sunny grantham.... I asked a few years ago when I did a law course...they had scrapped it all then, although the bays were still set up for it. I dread to think whats happened to all that kit. When I called last week the receptionist seemed quite put out at the thought of dirty engineering. Big shed you say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fran9r Posted August 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Have you tried Tresham College in Corby? They used to do evening classes for welding, etc? I want a evening corse to fit around work...I might struggle with that journey, but I'll bear it in mind if all else failes. Someone has just mentioned People's College. Their webshite suggests it's all daytime, but I'll give them a call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacemonkey Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 did my BTEC at grantham college, when it was a proper college not just hairdressing. there was arow of 20 colchester student 1800s, tig/mig/gas/mills, a cnc, they even had an old dyno, a proper car workshop, engine machining kit, the works. makes me kind of sad it's all gone. Every year there used to be about 80 apprentices from the local firms doing their first year in mechanical/fitting. I dont know anyone under the age of 35 that is fully skilled... however, have big shed full of above kit about 10 miles from sunny grantham.... Cool, I did a course at Grantham too. When I went, they probably still had 5 or 6 Colchesters, about three mills, a surface grinder and a welder. It is sad to see the nuts and bolts of the industry disappearing along with the real economy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tootall Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Any wee old school engineers shops near you? When I wanted to learn I went and swapped time doing shite manufacturing jobs on Capstan drills (piss easy stuff takes boss bloke five mins to show you what to do), for being taught how to use the mill/surface grinder/fly cutter/big arse lathe/tig welder. I did two hours turning ally spacers on the Capstan, I got an hour being taught how to do cool stuff. Everyone's a winner 'cos as you learn more stuff the more usefull you are to the boss and the more you get to practice doing the cool stuff. Plus it costs nowt but time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayRC3045 Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 sadly i would not think there are many courses for manual machines ,well not like there use to be , its mainly CNC now my nephew came in to see me at work ,he said we have a CNC like that at school and ive had a go on it (hes only 12) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 smokes 4 ever Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 I know its not much help to you, but I commend you on your approach I was taught to use said machines during my eng apprenticeship at the local tech college 12 months of being taught how to turn, and mill, and weld, and grind, and etc etc, has saved me thousands over the years Yes its mostly CNC now, but a CNC setter needs to know how to do it manually before doing it in CNC mode, and so need to know the basics of machining. Manual centre lathe turning, milling, surface grind etc will always be required. CNC is for high volume production jobs, not one off stuff You need to find a college still running these course, but I don't hold out much hope for you Manufacturing is dead it his country (thanks Tony & Gordon - you've fucked up the country that started the industrial revolution) and so all the support for it is also dead - colleges teaching basic Eng skills included. They all seem to do IT and hairdressing now Failing the college route, get a job in a manufacturing company or similar (hard I know as there aren't many left) and get friendly with the resident toolmaker or maintenance fitter. I have to say it is the best thing I ever did, getting on an apprenticeship I can make all the bits I need for my bike without having to pay for them - brackets, spacers, fabrications etc are no problem. Just need to learn how to weld Al and get the gear and I'll be self sufficient in everything then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porter_jamie Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 http://www.metalshapingzone.com/shop/start if you want to learn about metal bashing, then you need to buy this chaps DVD. it is not a hollywood style production, but the content is amazing. Absolutely worth it, and i would pay double for another copy tomorrow if i lost mine. He really is a master craftsman. He shows you how to make whole repair panels out fo ally, or steel and even a motorbike petrol tank using only basic tools. I think his frightening amount of skill probably has a lot to do with it. I didnt leave the house for days after getting it, but i might be a bit sad.... you will want to rush out and buy a gas set, mig set and tig set and disappear into the garage to make 'spannies and ally tanks. AND he does courses. as for lathes and mills, the best book i have found is: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Machine-Shop-Trade...5054&sr=8-1 it tells you what you actually need to know, but only usually find out through making huge mistakes, or being shouted at by the foreman/my dad. The quick way to clock up a vice, how to machine a square block so it is actually square, cool tips on grinding tools and so on. Made me twice as productive with halfs the amount of screw ups (which to be fair was not very, and quite a lot) 30 years or so of distilled knowledge from a time served manual machinist. highly recommended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tootall Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 http://www.metalshapingzone.com/shop/start if you want to learn about metal bashing, then you need to buy this chaps DVD. it is not a hollywood style production, but the content is amazing. Absolutely worth it, and i would pay double for another copy tomorrow if i lost mine. He really is a master craftsman. He shows you how to make whole repair panels out fo ally, or steel and even a motorbike petrol tank using only basic tools. I think his frightening amount of skill probably has a lot to do with it. I didnt leave the house for days after getting it, but i might be a bit sad.... you will want to rush out and buy a gas set, mig set and tig set and disappear into the garage to make 'spannies and ally tanks. AND he does courses. Just been watching some of his trailers/tutorials on youtube (follow the links off his site). Very impressed, think I'll order that dvd. In Stroud I worked with a bloke who hand built Austin Healy replicas, the skill level of old school metal shapers is amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fran9r Posted August 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Thanks for the tips fellas, I'll be following them. All the receptionists at colleges seemed confused that I'd want to do such a course, but I've got some people coming back to me...And Melton seem to offer a suitable welding course. £235, which is a big jump from last year, but hopefully worth it. I'll be putting my name down next week. No luck on the lathe/milling side of things, although I'll get the DVD stuff too. If I can get to a point where I can do all the above and paint too, I'll be a happy bunny. Thanks for your help so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tootall Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Painting is something I really want to get into. Impossible round here/over here. The system of courses and evening classes that exists in the UK just doesn't here. Reckon I'll just have to dive in and make loads of mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fran9r Posted August 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Painting is something I really want to get into. Impossible round here/over here. The system of courses and evening classes that exists in the UK just doesn't here. Reckon I'll just have to dive in and make loads of mistakes. That will be my way in too. It's not something I've seen a coursefor, but a mate's dad owned a garage fixing damaged cars years ago, and he explained the principles and let me play. I think it's just a case of confidence. He says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriGGer Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 The UK is dying. Engineering training here is a disgrace, throttled by red tape and bureaucracy. Who gives a shit if an apprentice can bench fit/machine/weld as long as their log books are up to date. Fuck them all. Sorry for the rant. On the brighter side, I'll never be out of a job. On the down side, my tax will pay for 'Graduate Engineers' who couldn't fit fucking shoes. Yep, Britain sucks cock. EDIT: Sorry Fran for the Off Topic, if I can be any help at all, give me a shout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fran9r Posted August 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 The UK is dying. Engineering training here is a disgrace, throttled by red tape and bureaucracy. Who gives a shit if an apprentice can bench fit/machine/weld as long as their log books are up to date. Fuck them all. Sorry for the rant. On the brighter side, I'll never be out of a job. On the down side, my tax will pay for 'Graduate Engineers' who couldn't fit fucking shoes. Yep, Britain sucks cock. EDIT: Sorry Fran for the Off Topic, if I can be any help at all, give me a shout. You can be. More chat up lines as in the 'from' bit. I'm off to 'beefa' soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porter_jamie Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 fran9r are there any specific bits you need making particularly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fran9r Posted August 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 Most pressing for me is some brake caliper brackets, but it's a skillset I want to develop so I can get my crazy projects moved along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 Buy my lathe and I'll give you some basic lessons. Take the lathe away and start drilling holes in everything you can find, and turn bits of metal down to different diameters, because you can!!!!!!!!!!! Haven't got a mill though, but I could give you lessons (on an imaginary one) Have to agree with most of the posts, country is fooked regarding engineering, one of my local college doesn't run any mechanical engineering courses. Its all media studies and bollocks like that. If you get your hands dirty in this country your'e regarded as a second class citizen. Paul ps I'm not bitter and twisted honest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 Me again, sorry, another thing "Health and Safety" what happened to opening your f**king eyes and using your common sense. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacemonkey Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 Me again, sorry, another thing "Health and Safety" what happened to opening your f**king eyes and using your common sense. Paul The Americanised ambulance chaser legal free for all put a stop to common sense.... Now supposedly grown up people are not held responsible for their own actions, it is always someone else's fault..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogo Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 Buy my lathe and I'll give you some basic lessons. Take the lathe away and start drilling holes in everything you can find, and turn bits of metal down to different diameters, because you can!!!!!!!!!!! Haven't got a mill though, but I could give you lessons (on an imaginary one) Have to agree with most of the posts, country is fooked regarding engineering, one of my local college doesn't run any mechanical engineering courses. Its all media studies and bollocks like that. If you get your hands dirty in this country your'e regarded as a second class citizen. Paul ps I'm not bitter and twisted honest sorry to hear that guys...but honestly imho I can't stop but laughing about all you moaning...ok I'm an internet whore...well I like to get info and I like to do shit loads of research before begining any project (wich sometimes works out the opposite way cause too many info cause too many options and my brain stalls..:S), so I'm regitred in loads of forums blah blah blah, in conclusion, here in good old Portugal, if you need anything to be bespoke wich is a tad diferente than the usual, you are in neck deep in shit....we still have a hand few of old timers that craft like Masters but they are a rare find and usually (like all masters...) exccentric or rude as fuck..::S.....by saying this I'm stating that in Portugal to get per example, a custom made piston set, you can either call JOCA in Lisbon area, Pachancho in Braga (North) and Solda Tudo Olhão (Algarve), I'm sure there might be a few more but I reckon they are like 2 or 3 more tops.... wich concludes that, Portugal doesn't as much as many mechanical engeneers per sq ft in it's whole extension as Yorkshire per example... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fran9r Posted August 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 Buy my lathe and I'll give you some basic lessons. Take the lathe away and start drilling holes in everything you can find, and turn bits of metal down to different diameters, because you can!!!!!!!!!!! Haven't got a mill though, but I could give you lessons (on an imaginary one) Have to agree with most of the posts, country is fooked regarding engineering, one of my local college doesn't run any mechanical engineering courses. Its all media studies and bollocks like that. If you get your hands dirty in this country your'e regarded as a second class citizen. Paul ps I'm not bitter and twisted honest Where are you, what type/size, and how much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul8899 Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 thought I'd join in the rant about all these health and safety people, the company I work for has just had about 75k's worth of guards,emergency stops,dc braking etc . What really winds me up is the attitude of the people in charge, all they know is that they have to get guards fitted to the machinery but they dont know the regulations . I know that some machinery needs guarding/ interlocking ( fully automatic cnc machining centres/lathes) but for the majority of the manual machines they only need guarding to stop the swarf/coolant getting you ! Thanks to health and safety we now have a cylindrical grinder that you cant set up because it now has a guard with an interlock on which then turns the chuck off when moved, try chasing tenths on that when it keeps turning off !! The problem is with this is that the people who are "qualified" to say what guards are needed are also the ones selling them !! So what would you do if you were them ??? The reason the company got all this stuff was because someone decided to try and stop a geared drill chuck whilst wearing a glove, not very nice. This happened due a lack of training/knowledge so the company had to get all this stuff fitted in case of legal action from this person. Its even getting to the stage where they are talking about getting rid of emery cloth in case we get our fingers caught while polishing on a lathe. Rant over The best machinery to learn is on the manual ones, you don't learn as much from cnc machines ( although they are easier to machine bits on ) Also if you can get in with a small trade shop you will learn so much more than if you went to a bigger company. Where i work there are so called toolmakers who cant even sharpen drills or use an optidress on the grinders ! Oh yeah and don't forget to keep your fingers out of the way when things are spinning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 Colchester bantam. Comes with 3 jaw chuck, 4 jaw chuck, faceplate, dickson quick change toolpost with 8 tool holders, std toolpost, splash tray (no coolant pump) and its 3 phase - but I have a brand new single phase-3 phase inverter. Had the lathe about 6 years, moved house about 4 years ago, and never used the lathe, (use the ones at work its easier). Live in Waterlooville, just north of Portsmouth.......maybe a bit far for you? If your'e interested I can take some pics tomorow and post them up on the pinboard Cheers Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tootall Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 If your'e interested I can take some pics tomorow and post them up on the pinboard Cheers Paul Do this, with price. Cheers Jamie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agtrak100 Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 My local college (Grantham) ran courses many moons ago...obviously I never looked into this until recently, and they have stopped. All the local colleges seem to have moved away from these type of courses...Melton did run classic bike restoration and basic welding, but don't look likely to be this coming academic year. Anyone know training providers not scared off by this topic not too far away from me? Tinterweb searches not turning anything up. I want to learn so I can make some one off bits -if I can fab/weld exhausts, ally brackets and odd pieces, whilst using a lathe for wheel spacers and the like, I'll be a happy man. Just a few things I did having never driven a lathe / milling machine.... but having a lathe mill combo given as a birthday pesent..... 1) go you your loacl scrap merchant and get freindly with him .. and then proceed to srounge chunks of ALLY.... 2) get plenty of light in yer shed you need to see whay the bloody hell you are creating 3) make sure that you have decent measuring gear and know how to use it... or learn by trial / error 4) read the manual that comes with the machine if it has one .. other wise there is ALOT on t' net 5) just start knocking up simple peices that aren't going to hurt if you mess them up 6) try and get the best tools / end mills bits etc' that you can afford, sharp tools make a better looking and more exact finish to a peice. Fewer better quality tools always better than shit loads of crap ones 7) ensure good supply of tea enjoy SteveT RHRC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blow_away Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 If you have the space/can afford it, get onto e-bay and buy a mill or a lathe. Try to get a manual one with a digital read out (DRO), this will let you learn what you are doing whilst making life relatively simple. Stick to popular machines such as Bridgeport so that you can spares/help with breakdowns, ask to see it working and make sure its not too big for your needs, for most bike stuff you only need something quite small. The machines are pretty cheap, less than the cost of a course, but that is not the end of the cost - you will need specialist delivery, material, tooling, maybe a cutter grinder, measuring gear, a pillar drill is very handy. Bear in mind that most of the machines will be 3 phase, so you will need a three phase supply, an inverter or a six inch nail in the fusebox Other than that, there has been plenty of good advice in this thread, i.e. practise making basic stuff from scrap, make non-critical components first (don't start by making brake caliper parts), read up on material grades and suitability so you know what to use and when, practise making basic drawings and cardboard templates of what you are trying to make, make sure you know how to read a vernier and a micrometer, work in metric (its loads easier), get a Zeus book, understand tolerance creep, look up how to correctly sharpen a drill. The rest you will just make up as you go along, have fun! Here is a useful link for reasonably priced tooling http://www.cutweltools.co.uk/ Zeus book Fairly typical Bridgeport Machining porn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porter_jamie Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 i got the DRO on the manual mill (Newall) mended by someone that works out his garage. He has tons of spares. if you need the number pm me. i got the cnc mended by an outfit in lincoln somewhere. they were quite reasonable actually. same again. (its a bridgeport with heidenhain control) i also know a bloke in leicester somewhere that can regrind the saddle on a colchester/harrison and put new screw and jibs in etc for about 400 quid. this turns a useless pile of shit into a lathe that is actually useful. and worth some. as for scraps of metal for playing with: http://www.smithmetal.com/ these boys let me rock up with a fist full of fivers and root around in the scrap bin (tons and tons of lovely ally). they just weigh it and charge you scrap value. The cash then disappears into their christmas piss up fund and everyones happy. Probably best to just turn up rather than try and get past the dolly on the phone. They will get you anything you need though, even if it is quite small. When they say what grade just say i dont mind, or HE30 tooling: http://www.cromwell.co.uk/ or http://www.mscjlindustrial.co.uk/cgi/insrhm because i get 25% off just buy what you need when you need it, dont spunk loads of cash on tooling you think you might need - you'll never use it. try not to mess about with second hand shit. if i'm doing anything important it's brand new every time. you soon build up a nice collection of stuff. It would be worth getting yourself a set of metric taps and correct sized drills for them (get at least two of each drill) and buy everything singly cos you can buy decent quality ones and it wont be expensive. DONT LEND THEM TO ANYONE BECAUSE WHERN YOU COME TO TAP THAT IMPORTANT HOLE THE DRILL WILL BE MISSING, BLUNT OR BROKEN blowaway speaks the truth! dont mess about with imperial. dro = for winners zeus book and 6" (ahem 150mm!) rule in your top pocket makes you look like a proper engineer! if lathing buy yourself a decent quality micrometer - moore and wright 0-25mm is only 30odd quid. they are more accurate than calipers milling - a decent digi caliper is well handy and easy to read, but quite dear. i seem to have loads of mitutoyo stuff about and they have been reliable even when dropped in the coolant and so on. DO NOT LEND THEM TO ANYONE. THEY WILL ONLY DROP THEM AND BEND THE JAWs. 80 QUID IN THE BIN As for the machines, give em some tlc and they will go on forever. my dad has a 1940s ward capstan that is still going strong and earning it's keep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abos Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 i was lucky enough to have a neighbour about 30 years ago who had a small workshop in his garden with Myford super seven and a dore westbury mill. i spent many a teenage hour in there learning how machine up bits and pieces. The one thing that Alan taught me was to make things from first princeples so if you could make it with hand tools you did. He also asisted me in getting an appreticship in engineering. The point of this tale, was i met Alan at a Model Engineering exhibition in Guildford and to this day it is still one of the best ways to meet people who are more than willing to impart knowledge and experinences on to people like yourselve. you can pick up a good myford second hand from £1000.00 and everyone does spares and accesories for them. I've got a warco mill and lathe as I mentioned elsewhere in previous thread. I recently visited an open day at Warco and 25% of the vistors there were motorcycle or car enthusiasts. Try this site for information and books about lathes. www.lathes.co.uk I would also recommend all the books mentioned in this thread particularly the DZUS book my first copy wore out? if you have any other questions PM me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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